***DREW quotes:
"All fundamentalists, religious and secular, are ignoramuses. They follow the lines of least resistance. They already know what is true and what is untrue. They do not need to challenge their own beliefs or investigate the beliefs of others. They do not need to bother with the hard and laborious work of religious, linguistic, historical and cultural understanding. They do not need to engage in self-criticism or self-reflection. It spoils the game. It ruins the entertainment. They see all people, and especially themselves, as clearly and starkly defined. The world is divided into those who embrace or reject their belief systems. Those who support these belief systems are good and forces for human progress. Those who oppose these belief systems are stupid, at best, and usually evil. Fundamentalists have no interest in real debate, real dialogue, real intellectual thought. Fundamentalism, at its core, is about self-worship. It is about feeling holier, smarter and more powerful than everyone else. And this comes directly out of the sickness of our advertising age and its exaltation of the cult of the self. It is a product of our deep and unreflective cultural narcissism. "
You better believe it fundamentalism kills
Facebook thread
"The caricature and fear are spread as diligently by the Christian right as they are by atheists such as Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens. Our religious and secular fundamentalists all peddle the same racist filth and intolerance that infected Breivik." --From your article.
DAR
What a load of crap. Let's put on your thinking cap eh Drew? Use a little critical thinking.
There are about 900 intolerant hate groups in America and almost without exception, they are very conservative and Christian. See:
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp
And unfortunately we can see the long trail of slaughter they have left in the US, even recently:
http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campa ... -timeline
As an author pointed out in an interview just yesterday on NPR... Since 9/11, 17 Americans in the US have been killed Islamic radicals. Since 9/11, 75 Americans have been killed in the US by right-wing homegrown domestic terrorists .
http://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138783681 ... d-al-qaida
Hey Drew, can you point me to a similar list of secular hate groups that go around killing people in the name of "no god." Can you point to an instance of Sam Harris or Chris Hitchens EVER calling for violence or hating any group? Of course you can't. The author of your article is, as usual, an idiot.
But thanks for passing along this bit about fundamentalism. It is rich with irony that you would attempt to associate it with me or freethinkers which stand as quite the antithesis of such dogmatism. I've been working against fundamentalism since at least since 1975. In fact I wrote a book about it in 1995.
http://fayfreethinkers.com/ourbooks/mirrorsample.shtml
Here is a little background for you. Let's start with a definition:
fundamentalist. Websters:
1. religious beliefs based on a literal interpretation of the Bible, regarded as fundamental to Christian faith and morals;
2. the 20th-cent. movement among some American Protestants, based on these beliefs.
History:
"In 1910, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church issued the Five Fundamentals of the Faith, which included: first, the inspiration of the Scriptures; second, the Virgin Birth; third, the substitutionary atonement; fourth, the resurrection of Jesus; and fifth, the miracles of Jesus. Those who subscribed to these five points were labeled 'Fundamentalists,' and so a new word was coined. . . . The General Assembly issued these in 1910 and reaffirmed them in 1916 and 1923."
-- Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, The Footsteps of Messiah, rev ed. (Tustin, CA: Ariel Ministries, 2003), 73.
That's where the word comes from. Fundamentalism goes back at least five generations in my family. I wasn't allowed to go to college because of my parents fundamentalist religion. While you might give lip service and pretend you are against fundamentalism, or know something about this issue, I have actually had some success in combating such dogmatism since I have helped get a father, brother, and two sisters out of it. Many others over the years have written me with similar examples after reading my book. My book addresses biblical inerrancy which is certainly the cornerstone of fundamentalism in the religious sense.
Now, if you refer to fundamentalism in a different sense, such a dogmatism, your attempt is no less absurd. While all humans are susceptible to dogmatism, it is freethought and freethinkers who actually actively work against this fallacious way of thinking (see Russel quote below). Freethinkers, and the groups involved with freethought, have no creeds or dogma. Those in our group have no particular set of beliefs. Period. The goal is to be open to evidence and willing to follow it where ever it leads, as best as humanly possible. Perhaps you are confusing "confidence" with "dogmatism." Yes, I am confident, once again, you don't know WTF you are talking about, but I have good, well documented reasons for thinking this. But that's not dogmatism. I am open to good evidence showing otherwise at any time. Maybe someday you will be able to produce some? That would be nice.
D.
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“The expression "free thought" is often used as if it meant merely opposition to the prevailing orthodoxy. But this is only a symptom of free thought, frequent, but invariable. "Free thought" means thinking freely--as freely, at least, as is possible for a human being. The person who is free in any respect is free from something; what is the free thinker free from? To be worthy of the name, he must be free of two things; the force of tradition, and the tyranny of his own passions. No one is completely free from either, but in the measure of a man’s emancipation he deserves to be called a free thinker. A man is not to be denied this title because he happens, on some point, to agree with the theologians of his country. An Arab who, starting from the first principles of human reason, is able to deduce that the Koran was not created, but existed eternally in heaven, may be counted as a free thinker, provided he is willing to listen to counter arguments and subject his ratiocination to critical scrutiny. ... What makes a free thinker is not his beliefs, but the way in which he holds them. If he holds them because his elders told him they were true when he was young, or if he holds them because if he did not he would be unhappy, his thought is not free; but if he holds them because, after careful thought, he finds a balance of evidence in their favor, then his thought is free, however odd his conclusions may seem.”
--Bertrand Russell, "The Value of Free Thought" Bertrand Russell on God and Religion (ed. Al Seckel, Buffalo: Prometheus, 1986), pp. 239-40.
free-think-er n. One who has rejected authority and dogma, especially in religious thinking, in favor of rational inquiry and speculation. –American Heritage
PS. Incidentally, about a month and a half ago, Ticon said, regarding the 9/11 Truther issue:
"I would gladly debate this subject with you any day of the week."
I posted his challenge on our forum, with the opportunity to do it there or here:
viewtopic.php?p=24111#p24111
I wonder what "day of the week" "T" was thinking of?
