Our New NWACoR Sign

[Dardedar]

More from the Mailbag:

I was so happy to see your ad on a bus in Rogers. So glad to know I'm not the only one!

Thank you,
[S.L.]

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It is amazing and incredible what God can do through a young lady.

Wow...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmm-0-Rd ... re=related

Each time I see a sign on a bus you will get a e-mail from me

God Bless America

[L.C.]
***

The last thing I wanna be a part of... NO thanks"

***

Add to mailing list please.

I found you through the nwa coalition of reason.

Thanks.

[D.S.]

***

"Hello there, my name is [B..], I'm a Fayetteville native and a student. I was happy to see your group exists, I've been an atheist since I was 13 but I've never been a part of a group or organization. It's nice to see people who have the same opinions supporting each other. I was wondering if I could be put on your list, and I was hoping to get some info on meeting times. I'll be back in Fayetteville this summer for school at NWACC then UofA in the fall. I'd love to drop in sometime and join the dialogue if that would be ok."


***

[kwlyon]

It is amazing and incredible what God can do through a young lady.

Wow...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmm-0-Rd ... re=related

Each time I see a sign on a bus you will get a e-mail from me

God Bless America

[L.C.]
***

Is this out of context? This really doesn't seem to make since....

Kevin

[Dardedar]

Is this out of context? This really doesn't seem to make since....
Kevin

DAR
Perhaps a copy of the response I sent her will help you out:

***
Sometimes people have visions that encourage them to do very nice things. Other times people have visions that encourage them to do very bad things. I am glad this lady has the kind that inspire her to make nice paintings. That some people have very active imaginations or visions or hallucinations doesn't necessarily suggest that a God exists.

But we do look forward to your emails!

Darrel
***

[juju]

Yes, Kevin, that's all that lady wrote. And she hasn't written back since.

[kwlyon]

I just grow tired of people "making a point"....I guess she may have a point there. It's not one I think I would be persuaded by. I kinda agree with Darrel on this one. However MY point is that HER email has little to nothing to do with the message of the billboard. Or maybe I am just to dense to follow her reasoning. It seemed like a random, "Hey everyone...look...there is a god see! Now I am going to SHAME you into feeling bad about that horrible horrible attack on my beliefs. How DARE you! Have you no SOUL?!!!" Whether it is intentional or not, this is a transparent diversion tactic and it annoys the ever living crapdiddly out of me. Perhapse because I am nieve enough to actually try to find a relevant point in the crazy that gets posted from time to time. So I apologize Darrel...for insinuating you may have pulled something out of context. It just...was random. Tell her to head over to http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum ... owforum=20. They eat that random off topic stuff up. As for her prayers....tell her Kevin said thanks. Unless of course she worships evil spooky sky daddy, creator of hell and damnation. I would rather stay off his radar.

[Dardedar]

Fayetteville freethinker friend Carl sent this along, I cannot find it online, anyone have a copy? It's a little newspaper out of Westfork.

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"I don't know if anyone has written of the response to the United Core of Reason's signs by Steven Worden, associate professor in the dept. of Sociology and Criminal Justice at the U of A. He wrote a lengthy article titled "The Billboard: A Beacon for Big Foot?" I saw the article in the Washington County Observer on 4/15/10."
***

[Dardedar]

Noticed when I drove to Rogers yesterday that our sign was replaced with an ad for some Razorback festival. Our month has come and gone.

[tmiller51]

At least we had the sign on the top. The bottom sign was mostly blocked when the tree leaves came out.

[Savonarola]

Fayetteville freethinker friend Carl sent this along, I cannot find it online, anyone have a copy? It's a little newspaper out of Westfork.

***
"I don't know if anyone has written of the response to the United Core of Reason's signs by Steven Worden, associate professor in the dept. of Sociology and Criminal Justice at the U of A. He wrote a lengthy article titled "The Billboard: A Beacon for Big Foot?" I saw the article in the Washington County Observer on 4/15/10."
***

FYI: Darrel's response to the text of Worden's article has been posted here. Please respond to it in that thread.

[ProudAtheist]

When the Springdale billboard went up a few months ago, a woman wrote to the Northwest Arkansas Times asking “what are we afraid of”.
I wrote the following in response to her editorial and sent it twice to the paper, but they have yet to publish it. I’ll keep sending it.

Gary Berger,Bentonville
________________________________________

Ms Trudeau is curious about those of us who support the “Good without God” billboard in Springdale and asks what we’re afraid of. I’m happy to explain:

We’re afraid that children are taught they’re born flawed and doomed to eternal torment unless they bow to a specific dogma and blindly believe in an impossible supernatural world.

We’re afraid of the continued hatred, violence, murder, bigotry, pedophilia, hypocrisy and scientific ignorance too-often driven by belief in a god.

We’re afraid that children are taught it’s acceptable to consider gays, women, followers of other faiths and non-believers as lesser people, not entitled to the same civic rights as believers and destined to hell for all eternity.

We’re afraid that the continued entanglement of government and god-belief can only result in fewer rights and freedoms and the erosion of the Constitution that was specifically created to prevent these things from happening. In a god-fearing theocracy, exactly which of the hundreds of gods would be the chosen one and what of those who don’t believe identically?

We’re afraid that people who question the illogic of their god-belief don’t (yet) know it’s okay to let go of their dogmatic indoctrination and be perfectly happy, productive, supportive, morally-sound, loving people without any subservience to an invisible entity in the sky. Billions throughout history have proven this to be true and forever will continue to do so.

I ask Ms Trudeau: Is her faith so weak that she’s threatened by a simple billboard? Is she perhaps afraid the billboard exposes the possibility that her god-belief will be revealed as a simple ancient story and not a literal concept to live by?

[Savonarola]

I wrote the following in response to her editorial and sent it twice to the paper, but they have yet to publish it. I’ll keep sending it.

Excellently done, PA. Keep up the good work.

[Dardedar]

Thanks to Carl for passing long this photo and confirming that we did indeed have some signs on buses.



I cropped this picture heavily, he wasn't really following that close!

And he found this church that used a variation of our theme:

[Doug]

DOUG
Our atheist cousins in Oklahoma have their critics too.

Atheists Erect Billboard In Oklahoma City, Critic Says It's 'Like They're Poking A Finger In Your Eye'



"It's not a question of 'Can you?' It's a question of 'Should you?'" said Dan Fisher, pastor of the Trinity Baptist Church in Yukon. "It's kind of like they're poking a finger in your eye."

Nick Singer, the coordinator of a local atheists' group called "Coalition of Reason," recently received $5,250 from its national counterpart to erect the billboard along Interstate 44 near the Oklahoma State Fair, which opens Wednesday. Its message reads, "Don't believe in God? Join the club."

Similar billboards were recently put up in Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Iowa, Louisiana, Michigan, Texas and Washington.

"The billboard was designed to get a little bit of a response, but it's not meant to be directly insulting," Singer said. "It's just a sign to like-minded people that we are here."

See here.

[Hydro]

imagine if our advertising was as "in your face" as all the Christian advertising we see every day

[Dardedar]

Doug beat me by mere seconds in posting that sign and article above (from Huff Po).

I did take some time to post some comments in the thread over there. One of my comments directed people to look at our NWA sign. Someone got my email and sent me a note about it this morning. Here is my response:

****
From: Karen H[snip] <k[snip]@comelectronics.com>
Subject: sign in nw arkansas.....
To: pianodarr@
Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 9:50 AM

These signs are offensive to me. Sad that if a Catholic Church ad were to pop up, ACLU would demand its removal…..and get it. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

DAR
Sorry Karen, you are exactly, wrong on all counts:

a) Catholics are free to advertise anywhere they want (and they do) just as any other group is (can't use the government though).

b) If someone tried to have a Catholic billboard "removed" the ACLU would be the first to fight and defend their constitutionally protected freedom of religion and...

c) As usual, the ACLU would win (that's why I send them money).

I can give you lots of specific examples of the ACLU doing exactly this over the last 90 years. The clue is in their title. Freedom of religion is a constitutionally protected "civil liberty." ACLU stands for American Civil Liberties Union. Thus they fight for American, civil, liberties. All of them, all the time. It's what they do. It's what they've always done.

But it gets better. Rather ironically we have an example showing first hand how your claim is exactly wrong. Observe:

fayfreethinkers.com

I'm the handsome fellow on the far left.

Notice that directly under our NW Arkansas sign, is a Methodist church sign. It's not Catholic but it might as well have been. The notion that someone would "demand it's removal" is of course completely absurd (it's still up if you like to go and look at it). If someone tried to remove that church sign, us freethinkers would be the front lines demanding that it be allowed.

People like to spread ridiculous misinformation about suppressed religious freedom and they also like to spread lies about the ACLU. Don't do that, it's not honest. Hope this helps.

Darrel.

This is cross-posted on our forum here:

[Dardedar]

More from Karen:

***
-- On Sat, 9/11/10, ... wrote:

From: Karen H... <k...@comelectronics.com>
Subject: RE: sign in nw arkansas.....
To: "'Darrel'" <pianodarr>
Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 11:19 AM

It is correct and I will speak out against it.

DAR
Nothing you said was correct. Other than the bit about feeling offended. As I pointed out, your feeling is based upon misinformation. And now you know it.

KAREN: I’m not surprised at all you send money to ACLU.>>

DAR
Of course I do. It's what good Americans do when they love freedom and want their civil liberties protected.

KAR: This is a weak and pathetic way to seek 2 minutes of fame.>>

DAR
It took two minutes to point out your basic errors. I posted it on our forum, on Huff Po, and emailed it to friends. It won't make me famous, even for two minutes but perhaps others can learn from your mistakes.

Oh, perhaps you are speaking of our groups. I have news for you Karen, as religion declines, secularism is growing rapidly, across the nation (and this is a good thing). Unbelievers like us now represent the second largest life stance. Larger than the Lutherans, Methodists and Episcopals combined.

Perhaps let this 1.5 minute clip from CNN explain it to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHK9lISnPf4

KAR: So have fun, enjoy your moment. Hope it makes you feel better. >>

DAR
It always makes me feel better when I help someone correct their mistakes and learn something new. Did you learn anything new? I hope so.

regards,

Darrel.

***
And more:

-- On Sat, 9/11/10, <k...@comelectronics.com> wrote:

LOL!! No, I do not agree at all with you, but I don’t expect to agree with you on too much…and I thank God for that, sir. You are too arrogant to believe in anything other than YOU.>>

DAR
You could always try being insulting. See how that goes.

KAR: That is a very sad, and scary, place to be I’m sure. To have no foundation of faith is to be pitied.>>

DAR
To the contrary. I have a very religious background. Escaping that was perhaps the greatest accomplishment of my life. Now I help and inspire others to leave. It's going well.

KAR: I’ll pray for you, and it’s my honest hope for you that you find the right path in life, instead of this kind of nonsense. >>

DAR
It seems you would not be the best one to be lecturing others on arrogance.

KAR: Please do not email me again.

DAR
I respond to any emails I wish. Feel free to practice what you preach.

KAR: Regards and Prayers to you.

DAR
Prayers don't work, but do enjoy the rest of your day Karen.

D.
-----------------------
"Science flies to the Moon. Religion flies into Buildings."

[kwlyon]

Karen seems like a really nice person who suffers from pressing doubts she is absolutely mortified to acknowledge. I've been there...it is a very difficult place to be. It also leads to a fair amount of rather transparent projection and hypocrisy. We must always try to not be overly put off by this and address these types with a firm compassion. It is an opportunity to "plant the seeds of reason"...Good response to her by the way. I think you accomplished this goal rather admirably.

[Dardedar]

Feedback from Linda Farrell regarding the above exchange. Linda's having trouble figuring out our forum so I am posting this for her, with her permission:

***
From: Linda Farrell
Subject: Re: sign in nw arkansas.....

Darrel,
Thanks so much for your cogent response to Karen Holton's e-mail. I have been a proud card-carrying member of the ACLU since 1989. I had heard about them, of course, but never gave their presence - or the quiet impact they had on all of our lives - much thought. I learned a great deal more about them as a para-legal and litigation-support consultant, working with scores of lawyers over a 25-year career. I learned about their work and read some of their amicus briefs and witnessed, first hand, the enormous support they have on all sides of the debate - conservative and liberal, plaintiff and defendant. In fact, I recall an "of counsel" (retired but still consulting) law firm partner telling his associates as well as younger partners that they all needed to brush up on how to draft more powerful pleadings, more compelling amicus briefs and more convincing closing arguments and that the best source of exemplary legal work was being done by the ACLU. They have the most amazing grasp of civil liberties of any group in the nation - bar none. The ACLU may not always side with the majority's opinions and may be forced to defend unpopular positions whenever and wherever justice is being trampled. History confirms that popular opinions are too often wrong. (Galileo was under house arrest for being right! ) But constitutional law is inviolate and provides a protective cocoon around every single one of us and has to be protected at all costs. Remember, lawyers don't have to like or agree with their clients; they only need follow the canons of legal ethics to protect their - and our - rights to due process. And nobody does it better than the ACLU. You were so right to tell Ms. Holton that they would be the first in line to defend the Catholic Church, or any other religious, political, social or ethnic position under attack.

It is sad to see so many Americans ignorant, not only of their own laws, but of their precious rights and liberties under the Constitution. And it is sadder, still, that so few know who their defenders really are. I, for one, would be honored to have the ACLU in my camp any day.

Thanks for defending our misunderstood champions of liberty.
Linda
***

[Betsy]

a little off topic, but has to do with the comment that Karen has a hard time figuring out this format.

The old layout was much, much easier to work with and easier to look at, in my opinion. I have mine set to go back to the old layout. We should advise others to do so, as well.

[Savonarola]

The old layout was much, much easier to work with and easier to look at, in my opinion. I have mine set to go back to the old layout. We should advise others to do so, as well.

Remind me to show people how to do this at the next meeting.