Watched Expelled in school

[Thetruthbehindtruth]

You can imagine my surprise. This should be expected as I just recently published an article on Darwin in the paper. Anyway, I handled it poorly, was a tid too confrontational with the teacher... Nothing serious happened in the class though. Later, with encouragement from a teacher, I sought out our principal to issue my concerns, and I feel like he kind of brushed me off, saying I brought zero information about ID and how he is legally obligated to do anything. Any ideas (court decisions from the 8th district court of appeals or something)? I need a good article discussing how attached Expelled, not just ID, is to religion.

Also, my teacher, showing expelled, believes Darwin was an advocate of ethnic genocide. I only have a minor understanding of it (that he was discussing it, not advocating it). Any help in that direction as well? I'd be grateful.

p.s. I'll try and post some of my school newspaper commentaries, they're very freethinker-ish.

[Dardedar]

DAR
This pisses me off. Can you say what school it is? I'm guessing Rogers High.

Take lemons and make lemonade. You should publish an article in the paper roasting Expelled from top to bottom. Aside from it's blatant propaganda it's filled with lies and misinformation from top to bottom. We have all the information necessary on this forum (or the wiki-page is very thorough). Let me know if you want some help or advice.

Maybe we need to give this thing a thorough roasting, an advertised public humiliation, at a meeting.

D.

[Doug]

Maybe we need to give this thing a thorough roasting, an advertised public humiliation, at a meeting.

DOUG
Excellent idea. OK, anyone up for it?

We need a DETAILED roast that we can record and put on CAT-TV.

[Dardedar]

DAR
The work may already be done for us. This crapumentary is loathed by a lot of people. There might be something concise and well done on youtube.

I refuse to watch the damn thing or impose it's raw effluent on meeting goers (it's unconstitutional "cruel and unusual punishment").

[Thetruthbehindtruth]

I'm definitely going to be writing a commentary on the mess, but my paper will focus more on religion in schools than a strait-up critique of expelled.

But more importantly, I might be able to convince our principal to stop the airing of the movie's second half. It's a long shot but I'll try and bring in a few documents to support my case. Right now I've got

Edwards vs. Aguillard (to show teaching creationism is illegal, should be a no-brainer)
The Wedge Document (to show ID is based off religion)
Kitzmiller vs. Dover (also to show ID is tied to religion)

Any other court cases or documents that could help with the convincing?


And, you guessed right Darrel, it was RHS.

[Savonarola]

Start here: http://www.expelledexposed.com/

Tell him a teacher friend of yours thinks he's an idiot.

Okay, maybe not. But -- as a teacher -- I find this appalling. Maybe you could leave him a note that you're very aware of the Kitzmiller decision, and he can't win. Either the District Court will agree with Jones, and your teacher loses, or the District Court disagrees with Jones and the case automatically goes to the Surpreme Court, where it'll be a 6-3 or 5-4 decision against your teacher.

ETA: Looks like you beat me to it.

ETA again: Check out my powerpoint presentation from a while back here.

[Dardedar]

DAR
In battling the movie I would focus on it's profound dishonesty and factual errors rather than getting into battling ID (which I understand the movie really doesn't get into). That's important of course but that's a different and more complex battle. It involves extracting a lot of the creationist nonsense in their heads.

Scientific American did a multi-part response to the dis-info, see:

Ben Stein's Expelled: No Integrity Displayed.

Have you seen the DVD of Michael Plavcan's presentation he gave at one of our Freethinker meetings? He roasted, no demolished, ID from top to bottom. My son, a senior at FHS just watched it and loved it. He says he finally understands what ID is (after watching Expelled he still didn't know). Dr. Michael Plavcan teaches anthropology at the university. He has told me that he will give the presentation for us again and at other places if requested.

Tell your teacher you can have a university professor, an expert, come to class and give a live, multimedia presentation on ID if that's what he is into. It would be a beautiful counterpoint to him showing Expelled. Or you can play the DVD. Make sure the class hears of this offer.

D.

[Thetruthbehindtruth]

First off, I loved watching Michael Plavcan's presentation. (Watched it the first day I got it) I even pop it into my dvd player every now and then.

Secondly, I had a minor altercation with my teacher today. He denies any evidence of fossils between reptiles and birds (even after I handed him an article discussing several) and probably all other fossils. The man claims that apparently the only eight* ancestors of men's fossils have been disproven, or something like that. He also made the argument from authority, "I can't believe you're arguing with a biology teacher about this."

The man just wants to remain blind. Everything about the movie is disgusting. If souls were real, Stein's would be abjectly dark for exploiting the holocaust for his own gain.

Unfortunately, there's no way he would even consider allowing a reasonable person to give a presentation in his class.

Here's an interesting note though-- the class has two hours, one with the teacher presenting the propaganda and the other with a reasonable gay-tolerant evolution-supporting religious man, whom I admire greatly. (He originated the outdoor ed. program and seems like a real character). I might ask him how he would feel if a biology specialist gave a little presentation on ID and evolution. But I have no idea if that will go anywhere.

edit: Nevermind on that idea, I'm just going to talk to my AP bio teacher about possibly having Dr. Plavcan to discuss human evolution.

p.s. contacting Arkansas ACLU, no teacher should be allowed to say evolutionist "just don't want to be held accountable"

[Dardedar]

DAR
He's a BIOLOGY teacher?! Good grief, we are talking Briney level of intellectually dishonest here. There is an Arkansas teacher led, evolution education promotion list some of us are on. We need to let them know about this.

"...the only eight* ancestors of men's fossils have been disproven..." Is that true Sav?

D.

ps Just kidding.

[Doug]

The man claims that apparently the only eight* ancestors of men's fossils have been disproven, or something like that.

DOUG
That's just a flat-out LIE. Perhaps you could get your parents to complain about this guy. Someone ought to do something, although unfortunately, in Arkansas, people like this are more the rule than the exception.

[Dardedar]

DAR
Update: The alarm has been sounded. There are some folks with the "Arkansas Science Teachers Association" looking at this.

For something to happen, pressure, i.e. complaints, will probably have to come from the ground up. That is, you and your parents.

D.

[eturner]

The National Center for Science Education (NCSE) has thoroughly debunked all of the myths in Stein's film. Google "ExpelledExposed" or go to: www.expelledexposed.com

The following is a description of NCSE taken from their website: The National Center for Science Education (NCSE) is a not-for-profit, membership organization providing information and resources for schools, parents and concerned citizens working to keep evolution in public school science education. We educate the press and public about the scientific, educational, and legal aspects of the creation and evolution controversy, and supply needed information and advice to defend good science education at local, state, and national levels.

The Scientific American information is also good, but NCSE was established for this very purpose.

[Art Hobson]

I agree that the report about Stein's film in the Reports of the National Center for Science Education is very well done and quite complete. It's in Volume 28, Numbers 5-6, pages 11-55 (Sep-Dec 2008). It comprises 20 articles covering all aspects of the film. Several are by NCSE organizer Eugenie Scott. It includes discussions of the film's interview tactics, marketing, box office flop, copyright woes, interviews with Stein, massively negative reviews except for the fundamentalists, creationist culture wars, bios of all six of the film's "martyrs," confrontations with real science, errors in evolutionary science, errors in science & religion, errors about Hitler & eugenics. Art Hobson, ahobson@uark.edu

[Dardedar]

DAR
So, hey... where's our update on this situation?!

[kwlyon]

Oh...jesus wept! They made you watch that horrible piece of trash in class? Whatever for? There is not a scrap of educational material in that "documentary". Dawkins was right...it was just....bad. I went to see it with my wife and another physics student from our department when it came out in theaters. I just like creationist stuff...like to make fun of it. IT WAS HORRIBLE...like not even entertaining in the least! We all fell asleep for a bit at some point in the middle and latter we took up standing ovations for the little black reel change indicator when it appeared. I don't want my money back...I want the two hours of my LIFE back! I can't believe they would make you watch that...sweet zombie jesus...this is cruel and unusual punishment! Hell when I was a kid the worse I had to bear in class was watching the grapes of wrath!

[kwlyon]

But more importantly, I might be able to convince our principal to stop the airing of the movie's second half. It's a long shot but I'll try and bring in a few documents to support my case.

If you like I would LUV to speak with him. I think it would be more than a little entertaining to see how he would attempt to defend the educational merit of Expelled or how he would justify the expenditure of class time on such an activity. Generally, upon realizing they are speaking with a scientist, they either get squeamish or exceedingly defensive. These conversations usually end with them getting all huffy puffy...and my only response is to calmly remind them that, as lewis black might say, there are scientist among you...and we will take time out of our geeky...geeky day, to explain to you what media materials have merit in a highschool science class.