Standard Creationism Thread

User avatar
Savonarola
Mod@Large
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
Location: NW Arkansas

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Savonarola »

youngearther wrote:Hi Doug...
Is there a point in there somewhere?
User avatar
Doug
Posts: 3388
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:05 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Contact:

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Doug »

youngearther wrote:"There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous." Psalm 14:5
I fear your God as much as you fear the Mayan God Q'uq'umatz. Do you lose sleep over not pleasing Q'uq'umatz? Didn't think so.
youngearther wrote:The generation of the righteous are all those who are believers in Christ since the resurrection. "All of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor" the free dictionary All believers are born again into Christ. So God the Father is our common ancestor and we are all in the same stage. We are all of the generation that is the bride of Christ. This generation will remain untill the rapture. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them.......... I Thessalonians 4:16-17
This is the generation Jesus is talking about.
Jesus said he would return before some of those he was addressing were dead. Those people, if that event ever happened, are dead now these 1900+ years. You can spin the word "generation" all you want, but the verse that will fry you every time is the one where he talks about those standing in his presence as he is speaking.

Jesus is quoted:
Matt. 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Either that kingdom already came (and you missed it), or there are some people walking around who are almost 2,000 years old. Which do you think is more likely? It seems the Jesus of the New Testament can't make predictions any better than Harold Camping.

Image
Predictive Power on Loan from Jesus!
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
youngearther

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by youngearther »

Greetings Doug

Matt 16:28
This was fullfiled when John received His revelation. He did see this event before he died as recorded in the book of Revelation.
User avatar
Doug
Posts: 3388
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:05 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Contact:

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Doug »

youngearther wrote:Matt 16:28
This was fullfiled when John received His revelation. He did see this event before he died as recorded in the book of Revelation.
DOUG
No one knows who wrote Revelation. Many scholars admit that MAYBE this person was indeed named John, but it was not the Baptist or the Apostle. Some nut wrote these rants and ravings.

Revelation did not "record" anything, as it is, as Voltaire stated, "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherencies of our own nightly dreams... What has no meaning admits no explanation."

To say that someone received a revelation from God is indistinguishable from saying that the person made up a bunch of nonsense.

If you would cite someone's imagination, show that their claims have some basis in fact. Barring that, you have said nothing of interest.
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8191
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Dardedar »

I'll even quote Jerry Falwell:

"I feel most ministers who claim they've heard God's voice are eating too much pizza before they go to bed at night, and it's really an intestinal disorder, not a revelation." [Rev. Jerry Falwell]

So let's see youngearth show that who ever wrote the book of revelation (it doesn't matter who it was), actually knew what they were talking about and wasn't huffing gas from their own bottom. There is no way anyone can do this of course. It's just some old anonymous sayings, written in a book, that is filled with wild and unverifiable stories. Why on earth would anyone believe them? Well, normally wouldn't, but we have all of these churches that brainwash kids with fear and intimidation, into believing. Then when they grow up, they can't get this nonsense out of their heads. Enter: youngearther.

Youngearther, if you haven't noticed, these discussions will always devolve to the credibility of the Bible. That's why, 17 years ago I wrote a book specifically attacking the credibility of the Bible. You need to start with that, and by that I don't mean simply quote from the book. We are far more familiar with the Bible than you are. You need to establish the case, a very strong case, for why the Bible, and the claims it contains, should be believed.

Begin.
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer
youngearther

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by youngearther »

"I fear your God as much as you fear the Mayan God"
I did not expect you to. The people who are around at the rapture will.

"You can spin the word "generation" all you want,"

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5

The above verse confirms my use of generation. The generation of the righteous are those who are regenerated. The generation of the righteous will participate in the second coming. So Jesus words are true.

I have given two examples how the bible confirms itself. Most apparent contradictions have simple answers.

"We are far more familiar with the Bible than you are."

I will concede this point but you do not understand it nor do you know Him of whom it speaks.

"If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself." John 7:17
God gives understanding only to those who ask for it and are willing to follow. God designed it that way.

Darrel
Thanks for inviting me over.
I will praying for you,Doug and freethinkers in general -like it or not.

God grants me the joy of His presence when I communicate with you.
Joy,Peace and the Eternal life to all of you.
One last thing If evolution were true why do people make it their purpose in life to prove there is no God and therefore no purpose in life? It does not make sense to me.
User avatar
Savonarola
Mod@Large
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
Location: NW Arkansas

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Savonarola »

youngearther wrote:"I fear your God as much as you fear the Mayan God"
I did not expect you to. The people who are around at the rapture will. [bold added]
Why continue with the threats when you've JUST had it explained to you that your threats are futile? This shows a severe lack of cognitive ability.
youngearther wrote:One last thing If evolution were true why do people make it their purpose in life to prove there is no God and therefore no purpose in life? It does not make sense to me.
I'm sure lots of things don't make sense to you, like cosmology, molecular biology, advanced calculus... and probably the color wheel and multiplication, too, but that doesn't mean that these things don't make sense. Of course, it helps to start with a basic understanding that evolution doesn't disprove that a god exists nor does it imply that life can have no purpose, but you won't consider our explanations no matter how general or detailed, eloquent or simple.

Oh, hey, one last thing: If Christianity were true, why do people make it their purpose in life to prove that Christianity is true and that life has no purpose without Christianity?
No, that's not a real question. The real question is whether this helps you see how asinine your question is.
User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8191
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Dardedar »

youngearther wrote:"The people who are around at the rapture will."
Christians have been making empty threats/promises about the end coming and Jesus returning to kick collective scoffer ass since the beginning. After 2,000 years of this nonsense, it really is quite beyond belief that people could still fall for such claptrap. Jesus, is dead. He ain't coming back. Get over it. Get over it a thousand years ago already.
"You can spin the word "generation" all you want,"
No spin, earlier in this thread I buried you in a couple dozen explanations from nearly the entire field of Bible scholarship showing that the straightforward understanding of "generation," is exactly what it seems to be.
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5
This is really dumb almost beyond belief. Here you cherry pick a verse, from some translation, from this anonymous book of "Titus" that uses the word "regeneration," which in this discussion/context has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "generation." For instance, the NIV:

"he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit," Titus 3:5

I've said it before and I'll say it again: political conservative simpletons and religious conservative simpletons get lost in the most silly of errors because they don't have the mental horse power to grasp the nuance of language beyond a grade school level. It really is that simple. The above is a glaring example.
The above verse confirms my use of generation. The generation of the righteous are those who are regenerated.
No, citing that verse shows that you have an elementary or perhaps middle school level grasp of the English language.
The generation of the righteous will participate in the second coming. So Jesus words are true.
Jesus words were shown to be false about 1,900 years ago. That's a long time.
I have given two examples how the bible confirms itself.
Saying the Bible confirms itself is circular reasoning, a logical fallacy.
Most apparent contradictions have simple answers.
Excellent. Then you won't have any trouble giving us simple answers to the couple dozen I have posted here.
I will concede this point [We are far more familiar with the Bible than you are] but you do not understand it...
I have forgotten more about the Bible than you will ever know.
nor do you know Him of whom it speaks.
No one "knows him," but some people have an active imagination and like to play pretend.
John 7:17
Again, you cite scripture as if this establishes something. You don't know who wrote that verse, or when, or where. Nor can you provide any evidence that what it claims is true. You believe it by faith. But faith only means believing with out having good reason. If you had good reasons for your beliefs, you wouldn't need to appeal to faith. If you had good reasons, you wouldn't need to appeal to 1,900 year old anonymous verses someone wrote in a superstitious book.
Thanks for inviting me over. I will praying for you,Doug and freethinkers...
You're welcome. All prayers are welcome since they may distract you from engaging in other foolish behavior. Remember to squeeze your eyes closed and strain a bit like you are having a poo. That may help. Oh, and clasp your hands together and make God a hand "sandwich." I understand that may improve the signal.
God grants me the joy of His presence when I communicate with you.
Those are hormones, adrenaline and various peptides your body is sending around and rewarding your pleasure centers with because you have convinced yourself, with simple religious psychological tricks, that you are skirting death and pleasing a sky spook because of your evangelism. Nothing more.
If evolution were true...
Evolution is true for well understood scientific reasons that were nailed down about 150 years ago. There has been no competing theory in that time.
why do people make it their purpose in life to prove there is no God and therefore no purpose in life?
1) Contrary to what you have heard, evolution has nothing to do with a God existing or not (these claims are true or false independently of each other, see the catholic church for instance).

2) Contrary to what you have heard, the existence of a God (or not) also has nothing to do with a "purpose in life." Whether a person finds purpose, or not, has nothing to do with whether a sky spook exists (or not), and the opinion that God may have, or not have, about a supposed purpose.

D.
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer
User avatar
Doug
Posts: 3388
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:05 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Contact:

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Doug »

Image
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
Post Reply