Standard Creationism Thread

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kwlyon
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by kwlyon »

That is a retarded and asinine assertion. We need not presuppose the principal of uniformitarianism. We need only prepose it as a theory which conforms to observation. We then sit back and wait for someone to provide a counter example. As of yet, no one has.
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Doug »

youngearther wrote: In order to proof [sic] uniformity of nature by repeated observation. I first must presuppose uniformity of nature. When Stanley found Dr Livingstone and said "Dr. Livingstone I presume? Did he not presume before it was confirmed?"


DOUG
Stanley was looking for the guy and met someone who fit that description. But deciding whether nature is uniform or not is not the same kind of investigation. You are committing the fallacy of faulty analogy. If I look to see whether cats really stay awake all night, and I observe them, will I only get an answer if I assume the conclusion one way or the other? Of course not. Finding out answers to scientific questions does not require that one presuppose the answer, let alone the correct answer. You obviously have no idea what science is, or how it works. It bears no resemblance to looking for a specific man in a jungle. That isn't science.

If I am looking to see whether a certain kind of tree exists in elevations above 14,000 ft., I don't have to assume the answer in order to investigate. That's absurd. If I wonder how many moons Jupiter has, I don't have to assume that it has 17, 25, or zero in order to make observations and find out.
youngearther wrote:Uniformity of nature was once a new concept.
New or old, it isn't in the Bible, as you claimed. So what is your point? Is this just another red herring to distract us from the fact that your earlier claims are false?
youngearther wrote: What is your theory on why scientists began to presuppose uniformity of nature?
Observation and generalization. What else? They certainly didn't get it from the Bible, which flatly rejects it. If you disagree, when are you going to respond to my rebuttals about the Bible that I have posted? Never? I thought so. I generalize about the inability of fundamentalists to respond. This is based on repeated observation. You fit the mold.
youngearther wrote: FYI freethinker=youngearther it was an accident. I have not been converted.
Sure. The words "freethinker" and "youngearther" are so similar it must have been a slip of the fingers, right?
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

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Following comments not related to creationism proper have been split to here. Please continue conversation in the appropriate thread.

--Savonarola, FFForums Mod@Large
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Young Earther »

Absolute Morality

What do I mean by it. William Shakespeare in his plays included many different philosophies and subjects in his plays. He also had a Biblical world view. The play Romeo and Juliet had three examples of absolute morality that come to mind, reconciliation (Romans 5:10), forgiveness (Mark 2:10) and obedience to parents. If the two feuding families in the play, had sought reconciliation and forgiveness instead of fighting or Romeo and Juliet had been obedient to their parents. The tragedy could have been avoided.

Moral Absolute

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

I think the above statement is an example of a moral absolute.
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

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Young Earther wrote:Absolute Morality

What do I mean by it. William Shakespeare in his plays included many different philosophies and subjects in his plays. He also had a Biblical world view. The play Romeo and Juliet had three examples of absolute morality that come to mind, reconciliation (Romans 5:10), forgiveness (Mark 2:10) and obedience to parents. If the two feuding families in the play, had sought reconciliation and forgiveness instead of fighting or Romeo and Juliet had been obedient to their parents. The tragedy could have been avoided.
These are fictional people. Saying that the tragedy could have been avoided is meaningless.

By the way, holding grudges and killing people, like some of the characters do in Romeo and Juliet, because they are members of a hated group, are par for the course with the god of the Bible.

See 1 Sam. 15:1-3, where the god of the Bible orders the genocidal annihilation of the Amalekites because of what their distant ancestors had done 400 years earlier:
Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
In this case it doesn't matter whether the Amalekite children obeyed their parents. They were ordered killed anyway. And their animals, too.

So much for personal responsibility. Need more examples of how the god of the Bible had people killed for things done by other people?
Young Earther wrote:Moral Absolute

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

I think the above statement is an example of a moral absolute.
Well, you can call it a moral absolute, but where is your evidence that it is a moral absolute?

If it's absolute, then it's inviolable. There should be no exceptions to an absolute, or else it's not absolute. But I just gave you, above, an example of where the god of the Bible orders the slaughter of people because of something their ancestors did. So they did not have a right to life. Hence the example you give of a moral absolute is not something compatible with the Biblical worldview.

And I don't see any evidence that Shakespeare had a Biblical worldview. He believed in a round earth that orbited the sun. The Bible depicts a stationary earth that is flat. Shakespeare also had satyrs and fairies in his works. Those are not Biblical.
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Young Earther »

C. S. Lewis has witches and fawns in the Chronicles of Narnia and he has a Biblical world view. In fiction it is OK to use make believe characters to present Biblical truths.


Flat earth?

I flatly deny the Bible teaches this. If any one is interested in a response to this charge go to creation(dot)com do keyword search flat earth
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Guest »

"Well, you can call it a moral absolute, but where is your evidence that it is a moral absolute?"

How about a nation established on this principle, a civil war fought over it and a group of people who to this day feel wronged by the fact they were not included when the nation was founded.
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Dardedar »

I've repeatedly asked Young E. for an example of a moral absolute and now he gives us:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
You have a Bible supposedly filled with morals (from God no less) but instead of sharing one of those... you pass along a line from a political document, written by slave holders, which gives a vague opinion that "all men are created equal?" Good, grief.

absolute = no exceptions

moral = morally binding instruction on human interaction

Does your Bible have one of these or are you going to need to look to a story by "Shakespeare"!?
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Doug »

Young Earther wrote:C. S. Lewis has witches and fawns in the Chronicles of Narnia and he has a Biblical world view. In fiction it is OK to use make believe characters to present Biblical truths.
a. Fictional characters like Moses? Fictional characters like Joseph of Arimathea? Modern scholarship does not hold these folks to be real people.

b. That C.S. Lewis had fictional creatures in his writings does not imply that the Bible OK's the use of fictional creatures. Of course, the Bible has a talking ass. That is a fictional creature, but fundamentalists take it as literal. The same with the Biblical witches. And Matthew's zombies that march into Jerusalem when Jesus is raised.

c. OK, where is your evidence that Shakespeare had a Biblical worldview?
Young Earther wrote: Flat earth?

I flatly deny the Bible teaches this. If any one is interested in a response to this charge go to creation(dot)com do keyword search flat earth
Image
The Biblical Depiction of the Earth: a flat circle.

I'll just cite a few of the many places where the Bible teaches that the Earth is flat and does not orbit the sun:

The Earth Does Not Orbit the Sun
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

The Earth is Flat
Any description of something above the earth that is visible from any point on the planet implies a flat earth, or at least an earth that is pretty much flattened and not round.

Daniel 4:10-11: "Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great. The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth."

Matthew 4:8 says, “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.”

Revelation 1:7: “Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him...”

See: The Flat-Earth Bible

See also from The Skeptical Review: "The Flat-Earth Belief of Bible Writers"

Note, too, that the story in Joshua chapter 10 of God stopping the sun in the sky is not about the earth ceasing to move, it is described as the sun doing the stopping. There is no mention of inertia on earth making things fly off at 1000 mph.

The Earth is Round--Like a Circle, Not a Sphere!
Bible writers thought of the earth as a flat circle in the middle of an expanse of water.

Job 38:12-13: "Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?" (Hint: Globes do not have ends!)

Proverbs 8:26-27 NRSV: "when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world’s first bits of soil. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep..." (Hint: Globes do not have ends!)

Isaiah 40:22 NRSV: "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in..."

See here.

And take a look at our own Fayetteville Freethinker tract that explains how the Bible's view of the world has a flat earth: See here.
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Young Earther »

Wow
Those are some great verses! There is nothing in those verses that make me think the earth is flat. What they say to me is the earth is secure and God is in control. The earth will remain until He returns (actually until the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ) my favorite was Revelation 1:7: “Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him...”
I anticipate being with Him in those clouds. I believe those clouds are the returning saints. (Doug would call us Zombies) boo!!

I am enjoying debating with freethinkers. You guys are cool dudes. Have any of you heard of Gary S Paxton? He wrote a song "Will there be hippies in heaven or will long hair and cowboy boots keep them all out. Will only the straits be the leaven or will there be hippies in heaven"
Sincerely
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

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Young Earther wrote:Wow Those are some great verses! There is nothing in those verses that make me think the earth is flat.
OK, show this by responding to each of them and giving your "better" interpretation. Just saying that they are unconvincing proves nothing.

Explain how Jesus could see all the kingdoms of the earth by going to a single mountaintop.

Explain how the earth is a circle, according to the Bible.
Young Earther wrote:What they say to me is the earth is secure and God is in control.
Stating that the earth is immovable is not obviously a statement about control. Please explain why people for centuries interpreted this to mean that the earth does not orbit the sun until science proved them wrong, and now for some reason it is somehow obviously not a statement about why the earth does not move.

Provide some support for your interpretation other than the ad hoc observation that you don't like seeing evidence that the Bible is incorrect.
Young Earther wrote:The earth will remain until He returns (actually until the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ) my favorite was Revelation 1:7: “Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him...”
OK, show how people on the other side of the earth will be able to see Jesus coming in clouds on this side of the earth. Let's hear it.
Young Earther wrote:I anticipate being with Him in those clouds. I believe those clouds are the returning saints. (Doug would call us Zombies) boo!!
Saints or not, explain how people on the other side of the earth will be able to see Jesus coming in the saints on this side of the earth. Let's hear it.
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Dardedar »

Doug again forgets to mention that we have a tract on this exact subject which compiles the standard Christian mainstream scholarly opinion on what the Hebrew scriptures teach about the shape of the earth:

http://fayfreethinkers.com/tracts/flatearth.shtml

The scholarship on this is uncontroversial and we give a good sampling of it at that link. The OT teaches that the Hebrews had primitive beliefs about the earth similar to their neighbors, as they clearly wrote in their book.
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Young Earther »

"Revelation 1:7: “Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him...”

If the earth was flat every eye could see him. Some people will be blind when he returns does this mean the Bible is not true because every eye does not see him? I can only speculate on how this will occur. One possibility is that he descends in Jerusalem and the rest of the world watches it on TV or their cell phones (iPhones) It appears more possible today to be fulfilled in a natural way than 100 years ago. Of course coming with clouds would not be a natural event.


Doug
You look like someone who would like southern rock bands like Allman Brothers Band songs like "Whipping Post" One of my alltime favorite rock songs. But then again maybe they are way before your time.
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Doug »

Young Earther wrote:"Revelation 1:7: “Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him...”

If the earth was flat every eye could see him. Some people will be blind when he returns does this mean the Bible is not true because every eye does not see him? I can only speculate on how this will occur.
DOUG
No kidding. After 2000+ years, join the club.

If 2000 years of horse races resulted in 2000 years of wrong guesses, how confident would you be that your horse would finally come in as predicted?
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Dardedar »

From my book:

***
The Bible's test for true prophecy:

When a prophet speaketh... if the thing follow not, nor come to pass.... the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Deut. 18:19

And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and is mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. Zech. 13:3

The Bible is filled with failed/false prophecies. I give several specific examples in my book, some examples are posted here (scroll down to chapter four: prophecy):

http://fayfreethinkers.com/ourbooks/mirrorsample.shtml
***

One of the most colossal and direct examples of failed prophecy are regarding this nearness of The End:

***
The END was nigh.

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matt. 16:28

But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Luke 9:27

See Acts 2:15-17 in which Peter invokes a prophecy by Joel to explain why a gathering of diverse peoples understood each other's language. This outpouring of God's Spirit was a sign that the end was near.

But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; 1 Cor. 7:29

Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Phil. 4:5

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds... 1 Thess. 4:15-16

God...Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son... Heb. 1:1-2

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb. 9:26

For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Heb. 10:37

Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord... stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh...behold, the judge standeth before the door. James 5:7-9

But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 Christ...was manifest in these last times for you,... 1 Peter 1:19-20

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1 John 2:18

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;... Rev. 1:1

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev. 1:3

Behold, I come quickly. Rev. 3:11

And he said unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand... He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Rev. 22:10, 20.

But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Matt 10:23
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Young Earther »

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matt. 16:28"

Greetings freethinkers and fellow descendants of Noah survivor of the great flood.

The above prophecy was fulfilled when John the apostle participated in the rapture and was a participant in the events. (The ones in heaven)

Rev 1:19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later..."

John participated in real time in these events just like the saints who are alive at the rapture and the dead in Christ will participate in real time later which in eternity will be the same time as John.

Do not forget time is a created thing. God dwells in eternity and we dwell in time. You and I have only lived in time. God is trying to explain eternity to people who have only dwelt in time.
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

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"God dwells in eternity and we dwell in time. You and I have only lived in time. God is trying to explain eternity to people who have only dwelt in time."

And you base this assertion on what... exactly? If you have a point to discuss I am all ears and you will always be welcome here. However this is not the place for random incoherent babble and baseless assertions. As there is no substance to what you have just written I think you will find it is mostly meet with ridicule and snide remarks.
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Doug »

Young Earther wrote: John participated in real time in these events just like the saints who are alive at the rapture and the dead in Christ will participate in real time later which in eternity will be the same time as John. Do not forget time is a created thing. God dwells in eternity and we dwell in time. You and I have only lived in time. God is trying to explain eternity to people who have only dwelt in time.
DOUG
Oh, well, that explains it. The future is the past and the past is the future. Why couldn't we see it?

Of course, if God does not dwell in time then he can't perform any actions, since all actions by definition take place in time.

To say that person P performed an action X is to say that at time t1 action X was not performed, P performed action X at time t2, so P is the cause of action X.

God can't perform an action because there is no time where he lives. So all actions are in the present. There is no time in which an action is not performed. So everything is done. All actions have been completed. The future is fixed and unchangeable.

And you have, therefore, no free will. If all your actions are already "done" from God's perspective, then it is impossible for you to do otherwise than the actions that are already done. And if it is impossible for you to do otherwise, then you have no choice. If you have no choice, then you have no free will, wouldn't you say?

I don't think you should use this "defense." It not only makes no sense, it robs you of any possibility of free will.
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Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by Dardedar »

Young Earther wrote:"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matt. 16:28"
The above prophecy was fulfilled when John the apostle participated in the rapture and was a participant in the events. (The ones in heaven)
DAR
Well, what else could you say? That is the standard excuse but it is unworkable. As even as the evangelical author C.S. Lewis had to admit:
”The apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, 'this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.' And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. This is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.”
C.S. Lewis, "The World's Last Night" (1960)
My good friend and former minister/missionary Farrell Till lays this problem out nicely:

"The issue is that the disciples of Jesus asked him what
would be the sign of "YOUR COMING" and of the end of the aion (age). So
whatever the end of the age was, the disciples of Jesus associated it with
his coming. Their last question asked Jesus to explain two things: (1) What
will be the sign of YOUR COMING? (2) [What will be the sign] of the end of
the age?

Jesus answered all of the questions of his disciples, and in doing so, he said that
IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation of those days [the destruction of the
temple], the sun would be darkened, the moon would not give its light, and
the stars would fall from heaven. This statement has to be an answer to the
disciples question, "What will be the sign of YOUR COMING." If not, why not?

After giving the signs of his coming, Jesus then described his coming as an
event in which he would be seen coming in the clouds by all tribes of the
world, who would mourn over him (v:30), and with his coming angels would
descend with the sound of a great trumpet and gather together his elect from
the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (v:31). Jesus then
assured his disciples that "this generation" would not pass away until all
these things were accomplished.

The problem is obvious. If "the end of the age" referred
to the end of the temple age that happened when Jerusalem was destroyed,
Jesus did not keep his promise to come IMMEDIATELY after those days before
"this generation" had passed away. The temple age has long ended, and Jesus
did not come. Why?" --TILL

Now, some like to pretend that "this generation" didn't refer to the generation of the time. Let's look at the scholarship with
regard to that assertion:

ON THE MEANING OF "GENERATION" (compiled by Mark Smith)

No future generation of Jews is meant here.
(Last Days Madness, Gary DeMar, American Vision, Atlanta GA, 1994 p. 114)

(This generation) can only with the greatest difficulty be made to mean
anything other than THE GENERATION LIVING WHEN JESUS SPOKE.
(The Expositor's Bible Commentary, D.A.Carson, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI,
1985, p. 507)

(in Mark) "this generation" clearly designates the contemporaries of Jesus.
(Commentary on the Gospel of Mark, William Lane, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, MI,
1974, p. 480)

..and He was to come, moreover, within the lifetime of the generation to
which He had proclaimed the nearness of the Kingdom of God.
(The Quest of the Historical Jesus, Dr. Albert Schweitzer, Macmillan, New
York, 1968, p. 240)

.. means the generation or persons THEN LIVING CONTEMPORARY WITH CHRIST.
(The Popular & Critical Bible Encyclopaedia, Rev. Samuel Fallows, The
Howard-Severance Sompany, 1906, p. 697)

..the reckoning was the same which has been adopted by modern civilized
nations, viz. FROM THIRTY TO FORTY YEARS.
(Peloubet's Bible Dictionary, Universal Book & Bible House, Philadelphia,
1925, p. 215)

Genea: It has the concept of THE SUM TOTAL OF THOSE BORN AT THE SAME TIME-
CONTEMPORARIES.
(Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia, Moody Press, Chicago, 1975, p. 664)

..the term simply refers to ALL PEOPLE LIVING AT A PARTICULAR TIME.
(Mercer Dictionary of the Bible, Mercer Univ. Press, Macon, GA 1990, p. 321)

Frequently used in the general sense of a period of time, THE SPAN OF ONE
HUMAN LIFE, or of those who live at a particular period of time.
(Concise Dictionary of The Bible, Lutterworth Press, London, 1967, p. 120)

The age or period of a body of CONTEMPORARIES, not in the modern sense of the
average lifetime of all who survive infancy, but the average period of the
activity of any body of contemporaries as determined by the normal span of
life. THE GENERATION LASTS AS LONG AS ANY OF THE MEMBERS SURVIVE.
(The New Westminster Dictionary of the Bible, Westminster Press,
Philadelphia, 1970, p. 323)

The "circle" of life, spanning from a man's birth to that of his son; this
period was reckoned to be FORTY YEARS.
(The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary, Eerdmans Pub. Co., Grand Rapids, MI 1987, p.
408)

Genea means the generation of persons THEN LIVING CONTEMPORARY WITH CHRIST.
(Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiatical Literature, Rev.
John Mclintock, James Strong, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI 1969, p.
776)

It has been maintained by some... that in one passage (Mt 24:34) our Lord
identified generation with the Jewish race; and meant in the passage referred
to that the Jews as a people should not be extinct, they should still have a
separate and outstanding existence, when the prophetic outline given by our
Lord should have reached its complete fulfilment. BUT THIS IS A VERY FORCED
EXPLANATION; AND NOT A SINGLE EXAMPLE CAN BE PRODUCED OF AN ENTIRELY SIMILAR
USE OF THE WORD. WHATEVER DIFFICULTIES MAY HANG AROUND THE INTERPRETATION OF
THAT PART OF CHRIST'S DISCOURSE, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND BY THE
GENERATION THAT WAS NOT TO PASS AWAY ANYTHING BUT THE EXISTING RACE OF MEN
LIVING AT THE TIME WHEN THE WORD WAS SPOKEN.
(The Imperial Bible Dictionary, Rev. Patrick Fairbairn, Blackie & Son,
London, 1885, p. 352)

..the whole multitude of men living at the same time, Matt. 24:34
(An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, W.E.Vine, Oliphants Ltd,
London, 1956, p. 42)

..a generation of men, the men of any age, those living in any one period,
so "this present generation" Matt ...24 et al.
(Greek & English Lexicon of The New Testament, Edward Robinson, Harper &
Brothers, New York, 1882, p.140)

..a generation, an interval of time, an age.
(The Analytical Lexicon to The Greek New Testament, William D. Mounce,
Zondervan Pub. House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1993, p. 123)

..the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Mt xxiv.34
(Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of The New Testament, Joseph Thayer, AP&A,
Grand Rapids, MI, reprint of 1889 original, p. 112)

Basically, the sum total of those born at the same time, expanded to include
all those living at a given time, generation, contemporaries.
(A Greek-English Lexicon of The New Testament, Arndt & Gingrich, Univ. of
Chicago Press, Chicago, Ill, 1958, under "genea")

It mostly denotes "generation" in the sense of contemporaries... "this
generation" is to be understood temporally.
(Theological Dictionary of The New Testament, Gerhard Kittel, Eerdmans Pub.
Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1978, p.663)
***

Let's see your scholarship.
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer
youngearther

Re: Standard Creationism Thread

Post by youngearther »

Hi Doug

"There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous." Psalm 14:5
The generation of the righteous are all those who are believers in Christ since the resurrection. "All of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor" the free dictionary All believers are born again into Christ. So God the Father is our common ancestor and we are all in the same stage. We are all of the generation that is the bride of Christ. This generation will remain untill the rapture. "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them.......... I Thessalonians 4:16-17
This is the generation Jesus is talking about.

"When I die just bury me at Wall-Mart so my wife will come and visit me" Gary S Paxton
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