Evolution FTailes!

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kwlyon
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Evolution FTailes!

Post by kwlyon »

http://www.evolutionfairytale.com

Check out his forum. I got handed my hat within the first four post. I promise I was exceedingly respectful. I'm not being facetious. I behaved myself. However it seems they are not interested in a honest discussion. I was not even talking about evolution, religion, politics, or anything of the like! I was simply correcting them on a few points regarding basic physics such as conservation of angular momentum and boyel's law. I then offered my assistance as a physicist to try to correct certain misconceptions along these lines. They accused me of everything shy of raping the governor. I was put in the "cooler" and told that I needed to stop making them feel stupid...no joke that is pretty much what the admin said. It was a fascinating ride to say the least. I think I will make an account in a couple months but mark myself (christian/young earth creationist) and do essentially the same thing and see what happens! It will be amusing to behold I am sure.

I do know one thing...when these people look back at their lives they will see two sets of footprints in the sand. Latter on there will be only one set of footprints and where the one set meets the two, there will be found Jesus with a pistol in his mouth lying in a pool of blood. (Written in the sand: STOP FOLLOWING ME!!!!)

Kevin
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by Dardedar »

Hey, very few people know that Doug and I did the "Butt Prints in the Sand" poem. It's all over the web, here is one I grabbed. Not sure it is the original inerrant version (that's on my computer somewhere):

***
Butt Prints In The Sand

One night I had a wondrous dream,
One set of footprints there was seen,
The footprints of my precious Lord,
But mine were not along the shore.

But then some stranger prints appeared,
And I asked the Lord, "What have we here?"
Those prints are large and round and neat,
"But Lord they are too big for feet."

"My child," He said in somber tones,
"For miles I carried you alone.
I challenged you to walk in faith,
But you refused and made me wait."

"You disobeyed, you would not grow,
The walk of faith, you would not know.
So I got tired, I got fed up,
and there I dropped you on your butt."

"Because in life, there comes a time,
when one must fight, and one must climb,
When one must rise and take a stand,
or leave their butt prints in the sand."

DAR
Hey Doug, the damn thing even has it's own facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Buttprint ... 7618097451

Looks like the guy is selling a poster of it. He made pretty good butt prints too. Better than the attempt we made years ago.

D.
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by Doug »

Darrel wrote:Hey Doug, the damn thing even has it's own facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Buttprint ... 7618097451

Looks like the guy is selling a poster of it. He made pretty good butt prints too. Better than the attempt we made years ago.

D.
DOUG
I'm not on Facebook, so I can't send the guy a message. I guess I'll get a !*&%^*&% Facebook page.

There's even a Buttprints v. Footprints discussion board.
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by RobertMadewell »

Ok, I registered.

Hey Kwlyon,
Did you notice how Nazi the forum rules are? Also, when registering he requires that you fill out religious affiliation and worldveiw, but doesn't provide a comprehesive enough list or an other. I think that reflects what kind of forum this is. Their worldview is obviously so black and white that they see no gray area. I don't think there's much use in debating these guys. They have their worldview and there's nothing that will change that. I just can't figure out the usefulness of the forum to them, other than to bitch.

Evolution is not my strong point, but they do have a thread for discussion about the bible. I think I'll ask a question or two about Deuteronomy 21:18-21. Maybe some Song of Solomon is in order. I assume that I won't last long there either.
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by kwlyon »

RobertMadewell wrote:I just can't figure out the usefulness of the forum to them, other than to bitch.
Oh...I am the only one posting right now! They are about spraying their shorts over the fact that someone is actually sticking around! Yes I don't feel there is much need to spend time on this forum. I am discussing a few things with one of the mods but I have told him that I will be taking my leave when out conversation is finished. I simply have no desire to take part of a board that so detest free speech. And the admin is an asshole:). I'll post our ongoing conversation here...
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by kwlyon »

Little Puppy Dump!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Super mod = mod with admin powers. Just in case you think I only have mod powers.

What is your problem?
Do you own this forum?
Do you pay the fees for it?

But you come in here as if you do. And that you are going to educate everyone else because anyone whom disagrees with you is to stupid to understand?

Last I looked what you believe in has "no absolutes". So the answers are constantly changing which means that what you currently believe today can be wrong tomorrow. Which makes it's ironic that you think you have it absolutely right when one part of that cannot even exist in science.

So are you going to tell the mods here how to run the forum? Shall we change the rules to fit your majesty's needs, wants and desires? Would you like to lay down the laws here and list how you want the forum to change to suit your needs? Do you want to dethrone the owner of this forum because you deem yourself smarter because anyone who dares to believe in creation is a ignorant moron? Shall we line up and listen to to all knowing member named pauliexcluded?

You are not the first to arrive here with your "know it all" attitude. And I'm sure with social Darwinism alive and well, you want be the last. Stereotyping people for what they believe, and being prejudice as you openly are, is the perfect example of social Darwinism.

We don't allow your type of "know it all" attitude here at this forum that basically borders on being a narcissist. Look through your nose at every member whom dares to disagree is wasting our time.

So unless you are willing to change that attitude, you are not welcome here. There are many forums out there that welcome your "know it all" attitude where you practice your "Social Darwinist" belief. But it won't be tolerated here. So it's your choice, stay or leave. It makes no difference to us.



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Jan 25 2010, 05:37 AM
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pauliexcluded
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I'm sorry, is this directed at me? What exactly have I said or done to illicit such a response. My intent is only to offer my expertise to the forum as a physicist. I certainly do not "know it all" nor do I claim to. I am, however, a fair to decent physicist. I apologize if I have come across as crass. It is certainly unintentional. Please, do point out what I have said that has been found offensive so that I may take care to avoid such offense in the future.

As for beliefs, I am not here to discuss beliefs. I am rather neutral with regards to what people believe. I am only interested in discussions regarding science and science education.

I certainly have NOT called anyone stupid on this forum. I am actually more than a little offended by this assertion. I am an academic and thus respectful of different opinions. No one is stupid for disagreeing with me. No one is stupid for being found ignorant on a certain topic. I am ignorant of most things. This does not make me or anyone else stupid and I would never imply such a thing. I certainly apologize if something I have said was in any way misconstrued to imply otherwise.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention,

Kevin



Jan 25 2010, 06:48 AM
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ikester7579
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When people imply it. words are not needed. Evidently we are to stupid to run this forum. To stupid to answer your questions. And you are to smart to get into religious discussions even though you joined a creation ministry type forum.

Your actions, your words, etc... express everything.

And your innocent act (I'm sorry, is this directed at me? ) proves to me that you believe you are above any correction from anyone at this forum. It's the very reason you accused one of the mods here for breaking several rules.

So if you are here to entertain your lurker friends, then go post what is said here at your forum (in hidden forum areas). I already know the drill. I have seen those areas before through a back door of a forum program. So I know what gets discussed that never makes it to the open forum.

But like I said, the choice is your's to stay or go. I'm not playing this reverse of guilt game. Keep it up and I'll make the decision for you.



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Jan 25 2010, 12:20 PM
Post #4
pauliexcluded
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QUOTE(ikester7579 @ Jan 25 2010, 06:48 AM)
When people imply it. words are not needed. Evidently we are to stupid to run this forum. To stupid to answer your questions. And you are to smart to get into religious discussions even though you joined a creation ministry type forum.

Your actions, your words, etc... express everything.

And your innocent act (I'm sorry, is this directed at me? ) proves to me that you believe you are above any correction from anyone at this forum. It's the very reason you accused one of the mods here for breaking several rules.

So if you are here to entertain your lurker friends, then go post what is said here at your forum (in hidden forum areas). I already know the drill. I have seen those areas before through a back door of a forum program. So I know what gets discussed that never makes it to the open forum.

But like I said, the choice is your's to stay or go. I'm not playing this reverse of guilt game. Keep it up and I'll make the decision for you.
*



Implication is often the result of a failure to communicate. I do not perceive myself as superior to anyone here despite what you assert. I have not accused any mods of breaking any "rules". I have not accused YOU of anything. Why the obsession with making me, someone you hardly know, out to be the bad guy? All of this just because you fell I came across as a bit arrogant?

I have no idea what "lurker friends" you are speaking of nor will I post anything here on any "hidden forum area". This is a bit of a paranoid rant there buddy.

I can't stay...you have blocked me from the forum..did you forget? Latters. It has ben.... amusing ....

Kevin Lyon


Jan 25 2010, 01:30 PM
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pauliexcluded
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If you decide you would like my input on this forum or would like to take me up on my offer of assistance feel free to drop me a line at my email.

Kwlyon@uark.edu

I won't bother to check back on this forum. Thank you for the fascinating look into the phycological workings of the fringe.

Kevin



Jan 26 2010, 01:41 AM
Post #6
ikester7579
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I doubt you can resist reading my response.

And the more you put us down for exposing your intentions, and your attempt to reverse the guilt. The more you prove what you were here for.

I have not dealt with debating evolutionists for over 7 years, and more hours than I would wish to remember, to not know exactly what is not being admitted to and what's being hid. Every post here you go deeper into how you really think. How you think about others who disagree with you. And that the world revolves around you.

And why would I, or anyone else here want to contact you about physics? Do you know it all about physics?

You keep bringing this up not because you really want to help anyone here. But because you think everyone is to stupid to understand any part of physics. So you figure you will educate us all. So what else should we contact you about that we are to stupid to understand?

Question: How does something come from nothing? It don't.

The only answer to how things exist is that there is a dimension that is infinite. Where all matter always was, and if life exists there it's eternal. As Dawkins claims: Matter came from a rip in the fabric of time and space. The rip between what always was (infinite dimension), to fill our dimension (finite).

Because where else would matter come from? Finite dimensions only raise more questions until you end up with an answer that points to a infinte supply that always existed. Because once one answer points to a finite supply, then the question arises: Where did that dimension come from? And because naturalistic science can only point to finite answers, the questions will be never ending. And the truth that is sought, never found.

What created the laws of physics and balanced them to work together as we now observe? If you believe they came by naturalistic means, you would have to show us the natualistic process in which this would happen. There is none. And the best guess is lame because it sounds like a "poof there it is story". Which is not science.

Nore stuff science hides...

Do you believe we will find life on Mars?

1) Mars has no ozone layer. So the full rays of the sun strike the planet. And that is every ray, not just a few.
2) The barometric pressure of the atmosphere of Mars is 1/8 to 1/4 of what earth's is. Which means that water will boil at 50 F.
3) Having a low boiling point of water like this means that any warm blooded animal could not survive because their blood will boil.
4) CO2 on the planet is about is several times that of the earth's. Which means what we fear about global warming, Mars already has.
5) And because there is so much CO2, and the polar caps get much colder than the earth. The CO2 freezes and falls like snow. So the white you see on the poles of this planet is not frozen water. It's frozen CO2.

etc...

Now why would science hold back this info? Because to reveal the truth would make it to where they won't get the trillions of dollars required to go there. Basically, science has become a political selling game. Where you really don't lie, you just don't tell the whole truth. Do you sell an idea by telling the good with the bad, or just the good? So evolution is the art of the sell, not the proven by evidence theory it is sold to be. Don't believe me? Answer this question...

Out of all the claims made about how evolution worked over millions of years. How many of these claims can be backed up by realtime observable processes? Let's say there are 100 claims made. How many realtime observable processes are there to back them up? I bet you cannot list 10, or even 5. You'd think that selling an idea as a scientific theory that they would have at least 50% of the processes observable to back up the claims, but they don't. What you really have is interpreted evidence parading as empirical evidence. Otherwise one could list most all the observable processes available. But I have not ran into anyone that can even list 5. Does 5 make a true fact?

The idea about evolution was thought up way before Darwin. In fact several pagan religions believed that man came from animals dating all the way back to Egyptian times around the time of Moses. Why do you think the drawings on the walls of Egypt often consisted of humans with animal mutations (bird and dog heads etc...)? Even their gods had animal mutations that represented the power they had over nature, or the supernatural. Even abiogenesis was already thought up as the Egyptians believed that all life formed (evolved) from the slime around the Nile River.

Darwin having a theology degree would have studied this. This along with his Grandfather's book (zoonomia, the laws of organic life), he concocked an idea of his own. Except that he plagerized his Grandfather and never once gave him credit.

Hitler took evolution a step further and applied social Darwinism. Between the concentration camps, and his support of Eugenics. He made himself into a monster. But what even connects Darwin even more to this, is that Galton, Darwin's cousin, headed up the eugenics movement. His goal was to help evolution work faster.

Hitler even claimed to be Christian. But never acted like one. But then again history will tell that Hitler was also a chronic liar. He broke every treaty he signed. And killed not only all those who opposed him, but priest and clergy because he suspected they were all working against him.

And you would never read any of that in any book that supports evolution because with holding information is now how science works. Cannot sell the idea if the whole truth is told. Because if the whole truth were told, it would cast doubt, and we cannot have that with such a perfect theory. That has gobs of claimed evidence, millions of hours of research and papers written. And billions spent on finding evidence.

Is the theory of evolution falsifiable? If those who have spent their whole lives in that field are willing to admit being wrong. But then again, dedicating one's life makes it personal. So that will never happen without a fight. So being unfalsifiable means it's not even a theory anymore.




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Jan 26 2010, 07:53 AM
Post #7
pauliexcluded
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You are right. I could not resist:) You are such a sad and angry person. Besides the offer of assistance with physics, if you ever do wake up and need someone to talk to drop me a line. I don't pretend to understand what you are going through however you will find I listen well. I would only ask that you desist with the accusations and projections. I have been very civil and patient with you. You have returned the favor with malice. I find this to be quite atypical of my past experiences with christians.

It is, however, possible I am making something real out of what is supposed to be ironic humor. I can be more than a little thick sometimes. If this is all just in fun, well....Internet flaming under the guise of anonymity can be fun...and truly I don't mind playing the monkey to this end. However I would ask, for the sake of the name of christianity, which has certainly taken its hits lately, not to identify yourself as christian while engaging in this activity. There are enough "christians" out there who are doing things like this for reals and certainly tarnishing the name of the religion unjustly in the eyes of the world. I don't know why exactly, but this just strikes me as more than a little a shame. I'm sure you will simply disregard this advice, however, I would very much appreciate it if you put some thought into it. And as I am not an anonymous avatar on the net, but rather you know where and who I am, I would hope you would show this request your first sign of respect--even if this is all just a misguided joke.

Kevin Lyon
kwlyon@uark.edu

Oh, and I would be glad to address your questions above. Email them to me (preferably just a couple at a time...I don't really have time to write a book you understand!) I will respond. I get loads of physics/science questions all the time from my students and others I have meet on the net.


Jan 26 2010, 11:34 PM
Post #8
ikester7579
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LOL, keep on playing the game of innocence. It's so lame and transparent.



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Jan 28 2010, 12:58 AM
Post #9
ikester7579
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QUOTE
Oh, and I would be glad to address your questions above. Email them to me (preferably just a couple at a time...I don't really have time to write a book you understand!) I will respond. I get loads of physics/science questions all the time from my students and others I have meet on the net.


Funny that you join a discussion forum but you don't want to discuss anything?

The reason you, and this forum, don't get along is because you have no control here. Members here are not bowing to your wisdom and knowledge. And you deem yourself so smart, that you cannot stand anyone whom gets it wrong. You figure your mission in life is to correct everyone on this planet.

That is why you have been advertising, not offering, your help. You have done this in:

1) Open forum.
2) Through PMs to more than one person.
3) And at least twice in this thread.

You are not offering help, what you want is people to exalt you by picking your brain and allowing you to show them how smart you are by answering their questions on your terms (through e-mails). And you have to have total control over this because you cannot allow your knowledge to be challenged in open forum. That is why you refuse to debate the issues, or answer any questions here.

One of the members you PMed offering your assistance with. Went to check out your claim of position at the university. He did not find your name anywhere in the faculty. Which makes us believe you are a student trying to pose as a university professor.

Maybe you can link us to your university professor page?



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Jan 28 2010, 09:16 AM
Post #10
pauliexcluded
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"Funny that you join a discussion forum but you don't want to discuss anything?"

Yes, I am offering my expertise. I would think you would like to have the input of a physicist... perhaps if you sought out the input of a biologist you would learn a few things as well. I would LOVE the opportunity to participate on this forum... however let's not forget that the reason I am not is because you feel the need to censor me--it makes you feel important. I don't hold this against you however I do hope you grow up eventually. Son you are older than me...it is time to humble yourself and recognize that you don't have the answers to life, the universe, and everything. You continually assert, through an act of blatant projection, that I claim such knowledge. I have simply offered to provide you and others with input as there is more than a few massive misconceptions of physics being posted on your board. Yes, I enjoy being the expert... that is why I steer clear of bio...I have a very limited understanding of that field.

"You are not offering help, what you want is people to exalt you by picking your brain and allowing you to show them how smart you are by answering their questions on your terms (through e-mails). And you have to have total control over this because you cannot allow your knowledge to be challenged in open forum. That is why you refuse to debate the issues, or answer any questions here."

Actually... though I do like to extend the opportunity for people to seek out my advice in private, I am more than happy to discuss anything, even topics on which I am not an expert, in an open forum. However I can not... because you have blocked me from the forum.... or did you forget again... you really aught to have that memory checked out:) Have you tried to email me with any questions? How then do you assert that I am not genuine in my intentions?

"One of the members you PMed offering your assistance with. Went to check out your claim of position at the university. He did not find your name anywhere in the faculty. Which makes us believe you are a student trying to pose as a university professor."

You just keep trying to make me out to be the bad guy. It is really rather amusing. Why the obsession? I never claimed to be a physics faculty at my university...now did I. I am a student...and no, I am most certainly not "trying to pose as a university professor". You never took the time to ask me what I do for a living or what my qualifications were. You never took the time to speak with me and gain any insight into my character. All you bothered to internalize was the fact that I was not a young earth creationist and that I was more informed on a certain topic than you, and therefor a threat. Your accusations have been very unkind and certainly not typical of christians I have spoken with elsewhere. I would expect more from one who claims to follow the philosophy of Jesus Christ. It is time for you to wake up son.

Again I extend my offer. Yes, on my terms, if you would like to LEARN something from someone who does know more than you with regards to the field of physics, drop me a question and I will respond. But no, I will not respond on your board in the Cooler. It is on my terms, via email, or on the open board. But I will not play your games. I am quite certain you are a decent person on the other side of that keyboard. However, decent people can often behave so deplorable when they forget there is a living soul on the other side of the internets. I extended to you my email so that you would know there is a human being on this end in the hopes that it would effect your behavior...thus far it has not. Look back over these post. You will see that I have responded to you with decency and respect...far more than you have extended to me.

Kevin Lyon
kwlyon@uark.edu


Jan 28 2010, 08:54 PM
Post #11
ikester7579
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Well since you deem me as having some type of agenda against you. I have decided to allow the other mods to chime in here.



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Jan 28 2010, 11:45 PM
Post #12
pauliexcluded
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QUOTE(ikester7579 @ Jan 28 2010, 08:54 PM)
Well since you deem me as having some type of agenda against you. I have decided to allow the other mods to chime in here.
*


I think you are just having fun. And it is amusing...on some level. Otherwise I would not keep dropping by to read it. I also love how I am now a "junior member" yet I have contributed nothing of value to this forum!

P.S. Any chance you would add "catholic" to the profile affiliation options? Also it would be nice if there was an option to get an email when someone responds to a thread. Just a couple suggestions. Other than that I have enjoyed my short (and limited) time on your forum. Thank you for the interesting exchange.

Kevin


Jan 29 2010, 01:32 AM
Post #13
ikester7579
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Others will be posting soon. Don't you want to see what they have to say and then try to play the same game all over again?



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Jan 29 2010, 03:41 AM
Post #14
Adam Nagy
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Hi Kevin,

Are you willing to hang in there for a few more posts? I would like to address your email to me here...

QUOTE
I noticed you have posted several questions regarding formation of stars, gravitation, and angular momentum. Did you ever get your questions answered? I simply did not have time to respond on the threads so I though I would drop you a PM and offer you the assistance of a physicist.. Let me know if you had your questions answered.

Kevin

I have had my questions answered. Based on the answers I've received, I've concluded that evolution, and her driving philosophy of naturalism, are a recipe of severe distortion, which veils the senses of so many otherwise intelligent people.

Adam



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Jan 29 2010, 08:56 AM
Post #15
pauliexcluded
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QUOTE(Adam Nagy @ Jan 29 2010, 03:41 AM)
Hi Kevin,

Are you willing to hang in there for a few more posts? I would like to address your email to me here...
I have had my questions answered. Based on the answers I've received, I've concluded that evolution, and her driving philosophy of naturalism, are a recipe of severe distortion, which veils the senses of so many otherwise intelligent people.

Adam
*

I obviously can not help but continue to check this forum to see if I have yet to be banned:) So I will, of course, read whatever you post and likely respond.

I do accept evolution as an exceedingly well established scientific theory. It should be pointed out, however that I have a limited depth of knowledge of the related fields. I accept it primarily on the word of many very capable colleagues. I can get you answers if you have questions regarding evolutionary theory, however you really would be better to seek out someone who is well studied in this field. There is no reason to go through a middle man and I am NOT an expert in this field by any means. Find yourself a graduate student at your local university that is researching in a related field and I assure you they will be excited for the opportunity to discuss their science with you.

I can discuss, to some degree, the naturalistic philosophy upon which science is built. I am not as keen on such subjects as I think the spoils of scientific naturalism are quite self evident. I think, however, you are referring to the tendency for this philosophy to be taken to its anti-theistic extreme. As I am NOT anti-theistic by any means. That being said, I don't believe that my opinion on these matters is any more accredited than your own however I suppose I could weigh in so long as that is understood. I would enjoy hearing your views regarding scientist and the scientific community in general. Hearing the opinions of others on this matter is one of the reasons I frequent several forums like this.... though I must admit I have yet to come across another forum quite like this one!

Physics does not come up so often on these forums. I get really excited when it does as this is my bread and butter! Thus, please, feel free to ask me physics questions. These are a whole lot of fun for me because, well, everyone likes to have the opportunity to be the expert! Expert or not, however, I do not know it all but I should be able to get answers even if I have to do a bit of digging. Very quickly in physics, however, we can get to a point at which there simply are no well established answers. You will find me qualifying my statements allot on these topics and I will make it clear that this information is NOT well established. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) these tend to be the topics people are most interested in! For example, why is there an apparent asymmetry in matter/antimatter. Why is there matter at all? What is charge? I simply have no solid answers however I will do my best to offer some highly qualified insight. By qualified I of course mean of the form "We don't really know however it seems that maybe...."

I look forward to hearing from you Adam. If, by chance, you find that my account has been banned before you get a chance to respond (I think the admin has become board with me at this point), feel free to drop me an email. I will pm you my address.

Kevin

Jan 29 2010, 09:29 AM
Post #16
pauliexcluded
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By the way Adam, I am quite grateful and appreciative for your kindness and decency. It will be returned to you in turn.

Kevin


Jan 29 2010, 09:00 PM
Post #17
Adam Nagy
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QUOTE(pauliexcluded @ Jan 29 2010, 10:56 AM)
I look forward to hearing from you Adam. If, by chance, you find that my account has been banned before you get a chance to respond (I think the admin has become board with me at this point), feel free to drop me an email. I will pm you my address.
*

Hi Kevin,

I don't think you'll have to worry about getting banned completely from here, at this point anyway, because I too have some say in the matter so let's not concern ourselves with that at this moment. If this discussion goes well and you can appreciate that others have also evaluated the same data that you have and come to different conclusions thoughtfully, then there may be hope for you to receive additional freedom.

The bottom line is this, Kevin, when you come in here anxious to answer questions as an 'expert' you may or may not be surprised to receive a rather cool reception when you have done absolutely nothing to demonstrate your ability to offer thoughtful responses or a cogent capacity to engage others in discussion. Your excitement about physics is simply not enough.

I will offer a couple of threads that already carry a great deal of my thoughts regarding the following request:

QUOTE(pauliexcluded @ Jan 29 2010, 10:56 AM)
I would enjoy hearing your views regarding scientist and the scientific community in general.
*


http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum ... topic=1887

http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum ... topic=2219

I have no problem with science or scientists and I am thankful for technology and throughout my adult life I have been an advocate of good methodology as an active member of industry, in the world of manufacturing. If you want to see my take on what science can and can't do, from my perspective as a machinist, than please read this OP from another forum that I had participated in:

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?p=5626523

My basic issue is this; The more I'm required to actually perform, by demonstrating that I understand science, through the development and production of highly technical components, the more I realize that the stuff evolutionists call science is really a bunch of speculative bunk. I don't know how to say it nicely.

Adam



--------------------
Jan 30 2010, 04:41 PM
Post #18
pauliexcluded
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Hey Adam,

You see, for all intents and purposes, I am banned. However I have been extended the opportunity to speak with you and I think that may well be worth hanging around for.

I am afraid that, though I do have RESPECT for the opinions of others, I will not concede that all opinions warrant equal consideration. Just as my opinions regarding the best method of reproducing a mechanical part (I happen to know my way around a machine shop however I am certainly no professional...not by a long shot) would not hold near as much weight as your own, I would suspect that my opinions regarding my own field of study would be, though not the end all be all and still subject to error, more informed.

I very much liked your post on that forum. It was very well thought out and I find myself in general agreement with you. There is, however, another side to the analogy. Though I agree that it can never be determined exactly how a part was made without someone having been there to observe the process, certain things can, as you pointed out, be determined to a high degree of certainty--the spacings between cogs for example. Machinist have developed tools that allow such measurements to be made. And though it would be possible for a machinist to look at a part and disagree about such a measurement...this would be more of an indication of an incompetent machinist than a point of actual contention.

I am rather surprised at the "cool reception" to having the input of an expert in a particular field that was being discussed. If someone is honestly interested in truth, they will certainly seek out those who are experts on any particular topic. I, for example, may well seek your advice at some point as I occasionally have to make parts (due to lack of budget) and often it is best to ask an expert how best to go about making something...it saves a LOT of time and waisted metal! Not to mention fingers.

As for not demonstrating my utility...well...let us be fair...I wasn't really given the chance now was I. You mentioned in your post on the other board that you occasionally get into heated discussions and that you are often not well received due to your beliefs/intellectual positions. Answer this for me...were you ever placed in a "cooler" for your activity on that board? You see this is where I DO have a problem with this board and will thus take my leave when we are done here. This board claims to be "a place for honest, civil dialogue on origins". I have been honest and civil...and yet here I am, not being allowed to take part in the dialogue, apparently because I came across as a bit "arrogant" for introducing myself as a physicist and offering my expert input on a particular subject of which I am quite knowledgeable.

On the other hand, I can perhaps, see this from your perspective. I am sure there are a lot of people who show up to this forum in search of a good "flame war". I would suggest that perhaps you should not jump to such immediate conclusions regarding any new arrivals intents...but then perhaps we should not jump to the conclusion that the sun will come up tomorrow.

All of science has its roots in "speculative bunk". It is the methodology of science that sorts through this bunk in an attempt to root out what works and what does not...what explains a given system in the simplest terms possible while still serving to provide verifiable predictions. It is my understanding that evolutionary theory and common decent have very much proven themselves in the academic arena. As I have stated before, I am not the person from whom to seek input in this area. If, however, you would like to understand the concept of the conservation of angular momentum I am your man. If you would like to know something about gravitation (what little we understand about it) I may also be of use. I will be open to discussing things outside my area of expertise of course. Do you have any direct questions?

Kevin


Jan 31 2010, 10:49 AM
Post #19
pauliexcluded
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P.S. I can't read the other two post you linked me to. I bet you can guess why:)
Last edited by kwlyon on Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by RobertMadewell »

Do you believe we will find life on Mars?

1) Mars has no ozone layer. So the full rays of the sun strike the planet. And that is every ray, not just a few.
2) The barometric pressure of the atmosphere of Mars is 1/8 to 1/4 of what earth's is. Which means that water will boil at 50 F.
3) Having a low boiling point of water like this means that any warm blooded animal could not survive because their blood will boil.
4) CO2 on the planet is about is several times that of the earth's. Which means what we fear about global warming, Mars already has.
5) And because there is so much CO2, and the polar caps get much colder than the earth. The CO2 freezes and falls like snow. So the white you see on the poles of this planet is not frozen water. It's frozen CO2.

etc...

Now why would science hold back this info? Because to reveal the truth would make it to where they won't get the trillions of dollars required to go there. Basically, science has become a political selling game. Where you really don't lie, you just don't tell the whole truth. Do you sell an idea by telling the good with the bad, or just the good? So evolution is the art of the sell, not the proven by evidence theory it is sold to be. Don't believe me? Answer this question...
What prompted that response! Whew! You sure can find them Kevin.

Of course I can't resist this myself. Everything he mentioned about Mars is common knowledge, though he gets a few facts wrong.

First Mar's atmosphere is more like 1/150th the pressure of earth's atmosphere.

Next, what does 'about several' mean? Mar's atmosphere is 95% carbon dioxide compared to earth's 4% (corection:0.038%. I usually round it up to 0.04%. I missed a few decimal points.). About several? duh! However, technically, earth has more carbon dioxide (by mass) than Mar's because our atmosphere is much, much thicker.

Lastly, yes, there is CO2 in Mar's polar ice caps, but there is H2O as well. As a matter of fact the Ice caps of Mars are mostly water ice. Only a fraction is dry ice. The southern pole has more dry ice than the northern pole because it get colder due to the higher elevation.

That out of the way, why does he think that anyone expects to find warm blooded life on Mars. If there is a chance of finding life, that life will be microbial. I don't think anybody has ever hidden these facts about mars.

Now, how do I know this stuff about mars? Well, I have a pooter and you can use them to check your facts. Just like what this guy did not do.

I don't think I'll bother.

Hey check this out:
Evidently we are to stupid to run this forum. To stupid to answer your questions. And you are to smart to get into religious discussions ...
It's really ironic that someone would misspell the word 'too' when defending their intelligence. Kevin it's not worth it.
Last edited by RobertMadewell on Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by Dardedar »

Ha ha. Good stuff.
RobertMadewell wrote:Mar's atmosphere is 95% carbon dioxide compared to earth's 4%.
DAR
Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean, earth's atmosphere has much less than that:

"CO2... is a gas at standard temperature and pressure and exists in Earth's atmosphere in this state. CO2 is a trace gas being only 0.038% of the atmosphere."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by Doug »

RobertMadewell wrote:It's really ironic that someone would misspell the word 'too' when defending their intelligence. Kevin it's not worth it.
DOUG
If the laughs keep coming, I say you should stick it out.

I love the fact that some of these guys are so stupid that they're Young Earth Creationists. That's just one cave away from being a Flat-Earther. As soon as they start to reply, you see the poor grammar and the misspellings.

(P.S. Don't tell a Young Earther that his grammar is poor. He might think you're insulting his grandmother!)
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by RobertMadewell »

Holy smokes Darrel! What was I thinking? You are right of course. I think I meant to write .04%, but it came out as 4% or something like that. Thanks for catching that! Of course I admit it. I was wrong! Which is more than can be said for some.

Talk about irony. I criticise them for using 'to' in place of 'too' and I made as bad a mistake. Man! Am I shamefaced or what.
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by RobertMadewell »

Well, poo poo! I just tried to reply to a few topics on that forum and it appears that I have no permission to do any thing at all. Probably because I am an atheist. Well, I guess we know how open that allegedly open forum is. Heck, I couldn't even post in the welcome thread that is specifically for new guys to introduce themselves. Never mind! The rules there are too restrictive and silly. The moderator appearantly thinks that everything is equivocating. I'd tell him what equivocating is, but sadly, I can't.

Get this, The admin asked this question of atheists:
SO…. If, according to the atheist, we go to nothing when we die; from where did we come, to get here?
and got this answer:
Atheism makes no claims about life before birth or after death.
then responded thus:
...(you) totally ignored the equivocation stipulations posted.
WTF! What equivocation? Guys, this thread is just too far out in right field. (I originally posted an indignant rant, here. I apollogize and I deleted it.)

Ok, they're letting me post now. I left a fairly lengthy introduction and tried to be as polite and non-threatening as possible (LINK).
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by kwlyon »

Robert,

In a couple days he will email you and let you know that you have been given "rights" to post on the board. Here are some "rulz". Do not PM anyone! Apparently this is against the rules...I have no idea why they have a PM system if they don't want you to use it...but that was one of the things that stuck in their craw apparently. Oh...and don't ask anyone to email you off the forum..also against the rulz... I have been graciously given the ability to "view" the rest of the forum again... though I can only post in the cooler. They have shown mercy in their eyes. Of course ALL of the action right now is in the cooler anyways! Also, I simply refused to respond to his questions, as I explained to him, while being treated with such disrespect. I told him I would be glad to address them however I did demand that it be on the open forum or via email.

As for the CO2 thing...yes...until about five years ago I thought that CO2 constituted about 3% of the earths atmosphere. I am pretty damn certain this is what I was taught in grade school. It was not until the whole global warming thing that I was corrected. It struck me as impossible for CO2 gasses in the atmosphere to have increased by such a percentage...this would, according to my misconception, place the percent CO2 in the atmosphere near 6%...and this is a change we would NOTICE! Sure enough, upon looking it up on google...CO2 is, in fact, a trace gas. And this is why it is such a concern--relatively large changes in it's concentration are easy to induce.

No this forum is not worth my time. However I currently am haveing an interesting discussion with one of the mods...I want to see where this goes. He seems like he may be an alright guy. But then, I always think the best of everyone...if I had a dollar for every serial killer I have given a medal to...but I digress. You will be able to post soon...you should check out the cooler1. I'm sure you'll end up there soon enough anyways!

Kevin

Here is a link to the cooler: http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum ... entry49769
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by kwlyon »

RobertMadewell wrote:
Ok, they're letting me post now. I left a fairly lengthy introduction and tried to be as polite and non-threatening as possible (LINK).
And he bit your head off for it...you proselytizing asshole! At least you didn't get shoved in the cooler. I think it is likely because you at least took the initiative to introduce yourself. I just jumped right in. I have never much liked the whole introduction thing.

Kevin
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by kwlyon »

Here is one for you:

"Bohles gas law is 60 times more powerful than gravity.Thats why see gas and dust clouds in the universe instead of tightly compacted gas and dust balls.

Thanks."

Link: http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum ... topic=1889
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by kwlyon »

Apparently my rendition of the footprints poem was highly offensive to the individual I am conversing with on the Fairy-tales forum. I can certainly see how this would be offensive. To be honest, it rather offends me! I would like to offer my apology to all who may have been offended. I get a little upset with people I suspect to be "fake christians". And frankly, the admin of that board seems to enjoy power far more than spreading the message of christ. This certainly would exclude him from the ranking of christian in my mind. It seems to me that such a realization, that these are your followers, well...I don't think it would actually drive christ to suicide however I am sure, if he is watching, his face looks about like senator McCain's did when everyone in the crowd booed at his concession speech.

Kevin
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by Doug »

kwlyon wrote:Thats why see gas and dust clouds in the universe instead of tightly compacted gas and dust balls.
DOUG
Correction: It looks like tightly compacted gas and dust balls are running that forum...
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by RobertMadewell »

Well, I asked them to delete my membership. It's a stupid forum. No civilized discussion is possible if you're worried about offending someone just by posting as an atheist. These guys are legalistic and closed minded. Why they would have a discussion forum that invites opposing positions when they are offended so easily, is beyond me. Maybe, some people like being offended?

By the way, is merely mentioning a religion evangelizing? I wouldn't think so. They really offended me by accusing me of that. It seems to me that because I had registered as an atheist, they looked for any little thing that they could chastized me for. I also couldn't help noticing that I was chided for merely mentioning that my wife is a UU, while they actually have a section for discussing evangelism techniques and literature. That, my friend, is a double standard and enforces my decision to quit this forum before I even got started.

Hey kwlyon, I actually asked them to message me if they started a discussion that they wanted me to participate in (before you told me that they don't like it). It's funny that they don't like people using it, and I gave them permission to use it for me.

Well, I just changed my password to something undocumented and unmemorable, so I will not be tempted to log back in.

I bet if I had registered as a christian, they would have been much nicer. Maybe, I'll get my brother to register, then break the rules. That way nobody lies.
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by Doug »

RobertMadewell wrote:Why they would have a discussion forum that invites opposing positions when they are offended so easily, is beyond me.
DOUG
I've seen it many times online. The answer is this: They like to PRETEND that they are willing to debate atheists or at least engage them in dialogue. They aren't willing to do it, but it is good PR, they think, for xians to appear to be willing to reach out to atheists.

They are liars, pure and simple.
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by kwlyon »

More unorganized puppy poop
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

QUOTE(Adam Nagy @ Jan 31 2010, 07:15 PM)
Oh, you can't see the forum?

I haven't had time to post but my response to you will be the first one when I get a chance in the next couple of days.




Hey, we are all busy. I have somehow managed to keep checking in here between the mounting homework and occasional lab crisis!


Jan 31 2010, 11:24 PM
Post #22
ikester7579
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You view of the forum has been restored, but you can only post in here.


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Feb 1 2010, 07:47 AM
Post #23
pauliexcluded
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QUOTE(ikester7579 @ Jan 31 2010, 11:24 PM)
You view of the forum has been restored, but you can only post in here.




Aren't we merciful:) Thank you I suppose... I was having blond moment anyways. As it turns out I need only log off to view the rest of the forum. You know, I will kinda miss this forum! I would never have guessed it, but this has been a unique experience. I would definitely say my worldview has been perturbed. And I would like to thank you, ikester, for the opportunity to finish up this chat before I go. This is something you did not have to allow and it may well be an indication that I have underestimated your character--though I remain skeptical.

Kevin


Feb 1 2010, 08:14 AM
Post #24
pauliexcluded
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I would like, before I leave, to at least invite you guys to my home forum. I don't pay the bills for it ether, and I cannot promise you will be well received if you are not open to evidence that may contradict your worldview. However I can promise that I will be welcoming if you decide to join in or start a discussion. I can also promise you will NEVER be placed in a cooler or in any way censored for offering input or even dissenting opinions. This is just an offer...I feel that if I have spent so much time on your forum, it would be rude of me not to invite you to ours.

Also, Ikester, I would be very glad to address your questions, particularly regarding mars where your information is a tad bit flawed, on my home forum, via email, or on this forum...this open forum. I would be more than willing to hang around for a short while to discuss your questions. And I will respond to them with respect. Even if you do not extend such a courtesy to me--but I think you will. I cannot guarantee that you will be received respectfully on the freethinker forum. That is the thing about free thinkers...they are all quite independent and I cannot speak for any of them. Any attempt to rein them in is similar to herding cats.

Kevin

Fayetteville Free Thinkers: http://www.fayfreethinkers.com/forums/

P.S. In the sprit of full disclosure, I have mentioned this conversation on my home board. A few friends may drop by to view this conversation. I just wanted to let you know they are not "lurkers" looking to degrade or generally misbehave. They are just curious and have found our exchange interesting as well.


Feb 1 2010, 10:33 AM
Post #25
Ron
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After having spent some time perusing your forum Kevin, I do find your statements may be a little less than honest (just my opinion) in its intent, and you have proven to be every bit as condescending as our first encounter here.

Especially your comment’s like “there will be found Jesus with a pistol in his mouth lying in a pool of blood” found at:
http://www.fayfreethinkers.com/forums/v ... f=4&t=6167 And more "less then honest" comments like:

QUOTE("kwlyon")
They accused me of everything shy of raping the governor. I was put in the "cooler" and told that I needed to stop making them feel stupid...no joke that is pretty much what the admin said. It was a fascinating ride to say the least. I think I will make an account in a couple months but mark myself (christian/young earth creationist) and do essentially the same thing and see what happens! It will be amusing to behold I am sure.
Kevin

QUOTE("RobertMadewell")
Ok, I registered.
Evolution is not my strong point, but they do have a thread for discussion about the bible. I think I'll ask a question or two about Deuteronomy 21:18-21. Maybe some Song of Solomon is in order. I assume that I won't last long there either.

etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....

I doubt the evidences there (from what I’ve read so far) will have any more strength of evidence than that of other “free thinkers” forums I’ve debated at over the last four or five years.

Incidentally, it was my first inclination to just come into this thread and attempt to have pleasant conversation, and see if we could attempt some mutual ground to start from. But after reading many of the posts from the forum you linked, and the unsubstantiated comments from its denizens (present company included), I doubt the possibility of that happening.


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Feb 1 2010, 11:07 AM
Post #26
pauliexcluded
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QUOTE(Ron @ Feb 1 2010, 10:33 AM)
After having spent some time perusing your forum Kevin, I do find your statements may be a little less than honest (just my opinion) in its intent, and you have proven to be every bit as condescending as our first encounter here.

Especially your comment’s like “there will be found Jesus with a pistol in his mouth lying in a pool of blood” found at:
http://www.fayfreethinkers.com/forums/v ... f=4&t=6167
I doubt the evidences there (from what I’ve read so far) will have any more strength of evidence than that of other “free thinkers” forums I’ve debated at over the last four or five years.

Incidentally, it was my first inclination to just come into this thread and attempt to have pleasant conversation, and see if we could attempt some mutual ground to start from. But after reading many of the posts from the forum you linked, and the unsubstantiated comments from its denizens (present company included), I doubt the possibility of that happening.




I certainly am a certainly more than a little critical on the free thinker forum. I have, however, been exceeding respectful on your forum. I will also continue to be respectful. Of this you have my word. I am sorry if that post offended you. It was inspired by the misbehavior of certain people claiming to be christian. If Jesus truly is god I can only imagine how badly it must pain him to look upon the behavior of his "faithful". They can be so incredibly unkind to one another...and others on the outside. Again I apologize for any offense my comments imparted. I do not pretend to be overly fond of "fake christians". And when among the like-minded, I do not pull punches. I have not made up my mind regarding you...you seem to be a nice person if not a tad misguided...but then aren't we all. Your admin, however, I very much suspect belongs in the group of "fake christians".

As for dropping by the Free Thinker forum and engaging in pleasant conversation, I warned you fairly that this may not be possible. I am not so sure it is a place you would actually enjoy posting on, however it only seemed appropriate to invite you. I would like to know what unsubstantiated comments I have linked. If I was incorrect in any assertion I would be more than happy to post a correction/apology on the freethinker forum. However, I spoke rather highly of you. At any rate, did you have a response to my previous post or are we done here? Either way it has been a pleasure chatting with you.

Kevin
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Re: Evolution FTailes!

Post by kwlyon »

One extra turd
++++++++++++++++
QUOTE("kwlyon")
They accused me of everything shy of raping the governor. I was put in the "cooler" and told that I needed to stop making them feel stupid...no joke that is pretty much what the admin said. It was a fascinating ride to say the least. I think I will make an account in a couple months but mark myself (christian/young earth creationist) and do essentially the same thing and see what happens! It will be amusing to behold I am sure.
Kevin

Oh...and this was NOT dishonest. This is EXACTLY what happened. I mean look at the paper trail here! If I have misunderstood the intention of your admin by all means explain his actions to me. I am very interested in understanding. Of course I don't actually intend to show back up here incognito...that would be deceitful and this comment is what you call "shooting the bull". However answer me this...how would I have been received if I was a YEC? I don't honestly know...but I have my suspicions. I am welling to bet that if a CREATIONIST physicist showed up on your forum you would be all over it.

Kevin
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