Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

JamesH
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Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by JamesH »

HOW I BECAME A FREETHINKER

I am very interested to learn how members of this forum arrived at their particular religious stance. I am interested in your philosophy on how you became an atheist, freethinker, humanist, agnostic, Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim or however you might describe yourself.

Some points I would like for people to touch on are:

When did you first know or start to form your present philosophy?
Did you grow up in a religious home or not?
Are you from a long line of freethinkers or are you no longer welcomed at Christmas dinner?
I am interested in anything you think influenced your present philosophy or epiphanies you may have had during your life.

This is an experiment just to find out our similarities and differences. There maybe other people out there that may have similar feelings, thoughts or experiences and may not know there is other freethinkers in the world.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE!

Thanks for your participation.

James Hubbell
JamesH
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by JamesH »

James Hubbell
How I Became An Atheist

I am going to begin by saying that I am an atheist with humanist leanings. My story starts in the middle because what didn’t make sense when I was a child, did the more I learned about religion as I got older. The first time I really questioned religion was in 1982 when I was 17 years old. There was a terrible famine occurring in Ethiopia and Time magazine and the nightly news did stories on this catastrophe almost constantly. I remember thinking to myself “Why would God allow this to happen?” I thought about this as much as a 17-year-old can, but one day I told my dad what had been going through my mind and his only response was “Yep. That is something to think about.” That was the starting point on my road to enlightenment or perhaps the road to Hell - depending on your point-of-view.

I am half-Christian on my mother’s side. My father is an atheist, or at least an “I don’t care, just leave me alone” type. I grew up attending the 101 Presbyterian Church in Gamiliel, Arkansas, with my mother. When I was 6 or so my father stopped attending. My mother is a member of the church to this very day. My father has stated that the next time he goes into that church it will be “horizontally.” I believe his decision had something to do with rumors, half-truths, back-biting, and all the same crap that circulates whenever people gather together en masse. Church-goers believe that they are above such things, but my father knows better. The maternal side of my family claims to be Christian although some of their actions would not lead to that conclusion. The paternal side of my family is a mix of freethinkers and Catholics, which can lead to some very interesting stories!

When I was 8 or 9 I sat in church and the minister was going over the story of Noah and the flood and I remember thinking that I knew it was only a story and did not – could not – have really happened. It was simply a story that would ultimately lead to some moral lesson. Even at that age I believed the bible was written before people knew about science and that the authors just explained things the best they could. I really thought all the people in church believed more or less the same thing. I never thought ANYONE took any of this as literal truth, or at least not educated people. I have to give credit to the comedian David Cross for jogging this memory in me. I knew there were people out there that did believe in the bible literally but I always thought this was a small group of religious nut jobs. I now know in my own mind that I had a very liberal view of the Trinity but this was never discussed because I assumed everyone thought secretly like I did. Even though I questioned the merits of these bible stories I went on to join the church when I was 13 for few reasons: first, I really did believe. Secondly, a couple of my friends joined and who wants to be left out at 13? My joining the church also got a lot of approval from the adults and again, what adolescent would not want that? So I deluded myself during most of my teenage years.

I was pretty active in the church. There were lots of retired people and not many young people. I believe total membership was always less than 100 with only about 15-20 kids and most of them only attended Sunday school. I went through the motions of attending church until I joined the service in 1983. As I said earlier, I was already having doubts before I left home.

After boot camp and schools for avionics (aircraft electronics) I settled into a regular military life. I remember knowing a few religious people but I did not attend church often even though I considered myself a Christian during this time. Before I left home I had started to see some cracks in the veneer of our local church and after trying to reconcile that with the famine in Ethiopia, I decided that organized religion was probably not the way to go for me. I considered myself a Christian but I did not believe it was necessary to attend church. I also started to notice another trend in the military: there were some people that became real religious nuts and everything they said or did seemed to revolve around their Christian beliefs. I always got the feeling that most of these people used religion as a means to escape the rigors of military life. In my opinion, military life was not that stressful, so I do not know what these people would have done in a real life-or-death situation.

I attended a few nondenominational churches but always felt like I was faking it. I tried again when I was in college with the same result. I hit a point in my life when I realized that religion just did not make any sense at all. I just saw too many hypocrites, slick performers, contradictions, and multiple interpretations of bible meanings. About halfway through college I read Hume and Voltaire and this lead me to become an agnostic around 1989.

I muddled along as an agnostic for several years until two events happened in my life. I met my wife Sherry, and the internet became readily accessible. Sherry was already an atheist when we met. We discussed religion at length and always came to the same conclusion- a Christian God does not exist! I did hang on as an agnostic for several more years but with the internet we found the FFRF (Freedom from Religion Foundation) and joined. I started reading Freethought Today and month by month, article by article, I slowly moved from agnostic to atheist. I remember the first time I told someone other than Sherry I was an atheist. We had just bought our house in Springfield and it was the week after Memorial Day, 2000. I was painting the inside of the house trying to get it move-in ready when some guy from a local church came to the door wanting to talk religion and invited me to attend his church. I told him I was an atheist. His response “What’s an atheist?” I told him I did not believe in any gods so therefore I was an atheist. He then asked to pray with me. I declined and sent him on his way. When I was an agnostic, I felt this religious weight on my shoulders. It was not until I totally threw off all religion that I felt intellectually free and free from religious dogma. That was my final break: I was finally free. People talk about their religion and how it has set them free or they don’t worry about things any more or they have put their lives in the “hands of God” and no longer feel life’s burdens. Well, it was just the opposite for me: religion itself had been a burden on my shoulders. Then the weight of religious dogma melted away and I now wonder if other atheists had a similar experience.

In the spring of 2005 I traveled to Columbus, Ohio on business with 3 engineers from our company. One was an evangelical, one a Baptist, and one a Catholic (and no, this isn’t a joke.) We drove in a van and everything was fine until we reached Effingham, Illinois and there on I-70 sits this huge metal cross at the side of the road. It’s at least 80 feet tall. The evangelical engineer sitting behind me touched my shoulder and said “James, don’t be scared.” I let that pass. We did our business in Columbus and everything was fine until the trip back to Springfield. We had not made it far down the road when the Catholic said “Well, we have talked politics, family, education, etc., but we haven’t talked about religion. James, what do you think?” Can you say “set up?” All three of them knew I was an atheist but they all pretended to be surprised. At that point my only real defense was that religion just didn’t make any sense at all. They all went at me for a couple of hours and finally gave up because even though my argument may not have been strong, it did make sense. That was the latest step in my journey as an atheist. My colleagues did not convince me that I was wrong, but they did show me that I needed to be able to defend my position better.

In 2006 I began my religious self-education. I started with Doug’s book and moved on to Darrel’s book. I then read Dan Barker, Carl Sagan, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Ruth Green, more of the Freethought Today, Free Inquiry, and the Bible. I believe that I am now armed with enough knowledge that if faced with another religious minivan tour my cohorts will either have to get out and walk or leave me in a shallow grave along the side of the road.

I have become so at peace with my atheism that I cannot imagine ever going back to religion. I actually feel sorry for religious people who do not experience this freedom.

I used to work for a uniform company as a manager/maintenance technician. I was with this company for 2 ½ years and thought I was content and successful with my work. I left on the advice of my good wife Sherry for the job I have now. After about 1 year in my present job I realized how unhappy I really had been at the previous job. I had not known that I could achieve such freedom or fulfillment in a job. This epiphany allowed me to see further into my past military career and realize how I had “dodged a bullet” by not becoming an officer and eventually getting out of the service altogether.

Atheism has provided me with freedom, clarity, and a peace of mine I do not believe I could have ever achieved through religion.
JamesH
"Knowledge will set you free, but freedom comes with responsibilities." I know that someone had to say that before me.
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Betsy
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Betsy »

p.s. My sister is now the pastor of a beautifully quaint little Presbyterian church in Long Island, New York (it looks like a Christmas card) and is amazingly liberal - she's very liberal (doesn't believe in the virgin birth or even in the old man in the sky, etc.) rather like Lowell Grisham. And she gets to help people and makes a nice living doing it, actually, and so it all worked out okay...
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by JamesH »

Betsy,

Thank you very much for sharing your story with us.

Sincerely,
JamesH
"Knowledge will set you free, but freedom comes with responsibilities." I know that someone had to say that before me.
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by L.Wood »

.


I became a free thinker so as to have a better hereafter.

.
"Blessed is the Lord for he avoids Evil just like the Godfather, he delegates."
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Doug »

Betsy wrote:p.s. My sister is now the pastor of a beautifully quaint little Presbyterian church in Long Island, New York (it looks like a Christmas card) and is amazingly liberal - she's very liberal (doesn't believe in the virgin birth or even in the old man in the sky, etc.) rather like Lowell Grisham. And she gets to help people and makes a nice living doing it, actually, and so it all worked out okay...
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My brother often goes out to Long Island for the weekends and summers. Maybe he knows her. Where's her church? What's her name?
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Doug »

Betsy wrote:Pastor Rebecca Segers...
DOUG
Betsy and Becky. My brothers and I all have the same initials too. All 3 initials.
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

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yep!
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Savonarola »

I am originally from Southern California, the son of a Jew and a Christian-turned-agnostic, or maybe a Christian-raised agnostic (the details of when, why, and how this apparent deconversion have never been discussed). In SoCal, religion is not an issue, or at least it never seemed to be an issue during my incredibly sheltered childhood. I learned later that my father had wanted to send the kids to church, and my mother agreed on the condition that they also sent us to synagogue; this was a dealbreaker, so we were raised essentially independently of religion.

My first real exposure to religion was after moving to Arkansas at age 8. By this time my mother had distanced herself from her Jewish upbringing and for some reason let it be known in the community that she wasn't a believer. To give the reader an idea of what implications this had, here are a couple of factoids worth mentioning: (1) for a town of 400, there are seven churches; (2) any excuse to do something that appears religious is praised to a ridiculous extent -- the Christian Motorcyclists Association (yes, you read that right) was huge, and a friend's family bought the old school gym to make it a church... of course, they left up the basketball goals, so it was really a gym with a tax write-off.
When the religious nutjob parents found out, they told their kids that Sav's mother doesn't believe in God, so the kids gave me the third degree at school. This was the first time I did any real contemplation. I saw no evidence, no reason to believe. Not surprisingly, the other third graders couldn't provide any evidence or reason, either.

Some years after that, my mother's brother was diagnosed with leukemia and passed away after a surprisingly short period of time. This was the last straw for my mother, who could not fathom how any deity could make such a "beautiful man" suffer and rob the earth of him. Her wording stuck with me because it was odd, but I realized that it was appropriate and that her reasoning hit the nail on the head. No amount of "God called him up" or "it was his time" or "it's all part of the plan" could ever justify such events. Sure, I could see how a God would want my uncle hanging around in heaven being the guy that everybody loved, but God can allegedly see that without giving him a terrible and painful disease, making him (and others) suffer, and then having him die.

This triggered dinner table discussions of religion, where I learned that my dad considers the human mind too feeble to comprehend the question of whether some sort of deity exists. I dragged out of him that he has a view like Einstein's, that the universe does really cool things, and whether we want to call it "the universe" or "mother nature" or "God" is really semantics. My older brother views religion as crap, but doesn't get fired up about it unless it impedes his rights. My sister for a while "fell victim" to her friends' abuse, but after attending church a few times and getting a study Bible, she has decided to believe in a generic god (much like our dad).

At this point, I was in high school, and the internet had become all the rage. I did all sorts of reading about religion, focusing especially on the evolution/creationism debate, as that's where most of my school friends' arguments seemed to rest. (As a teacher, this continues to be one of my hot-button issues; my avatar here is from a show where a character is being tested for mental retardation: the doctor is holding a readout where the top says "average," the middle says "retarded" and the character's name is in that range, and below "retarded" is the group called "creationists.") By the end of high school, I considered myself an atheist, and my friends didn't dare argue with me about it because it never worked out well for them. (That's a trend that continues today.)

In college, I did more reading and took philosophy classes. I decided to call my views "non-theism," despite the fact that I vehemently disagreed with organized religion. I started talking to a student from one of the student ministries trying to understand how these people could believe stories that a third grader should know are simply stories. I gained a better understanding of why people cling to their beliefs and that they're not really that stupid.. usually... they're just not objective. When anyone asks, it's not that I refuse to believe in any God, it's that I don't believe in that person's God. However, mincing words becomes pedantic, and I don't believe in any gods, so I accept the label of "atheist" and wear it wherever it can't be used against me, which is virtually nowhere in Arkansas.

My sophomore year, I joined the Campus Association of Freethought and became aware of the Fayetteville Freethinkers. The rest is history.
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

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the story of your uncle leads me to another time when tragedy and god mixed - 9/11. I remember watching a news program and they were interviewing an elderly black woman who was rescued from one of the towers - she was in a stairwell with a few firemen who were carrying her down the stairs when the whole building crumbled except this one portion of the stairwell. When the interviewer asked her why she thought she was spared, she said (and I quote) "Because God is so good."

I about threw a shoe at my television set.
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Jae Baeli »

By way of response, an excerpt from my book, Supernatural Hypocrisy: The Cognitive Dissonance of a God Cosmology (formatted for web post)

Education Begets Questions

Though I’ve had 8 years of college, most of my higher education has been achieved autonomously. It’s not unusual for me to delve into a subject and spend 16 to 18 hours a day studying it, until I feel I have a firm grasp.

I am also a devout Disciple of Google. The Internet has been, hands down, the most useful tool in my personal development as a writer, and as a knowledgeable and discerning person. I can recall years ago when I first began to write books, that the research alone took forever. Now, all I have to do is keep my search box open and click over whenever I want to know even the strangest or esoteric detail.

Thus, I am a hard-liner about ignorance. There is rarely ever an excuse to remain uninformed, illiterate, or unenlightened. (Exceptions might be brain injury or some other organic cognitive defect). Education allows you to make more informed decisions and to discern between pertinent and impertinent facts, so that those decisions will make sense. An uneducated person can fall prey to fallacious arguments and questionable facts, due to the lack of understanding where those facts are concerned.

My pursuit of higher learning, then, has ultimately led me to this point, to these foreboding and complicated matters under the umbrella of belief.


Cognitive Dissonance

AS I RE-EXAMINED THE SCRIPTURES, after having moved decidedly away from them over the last 17 years, I found that I had good reason to move away from scriptures, and indeed, the Christian faith in particular. What I had done subconsciously, was perhaps based on a real reaction to living my life in the context of having a belief in a higher power—an invisible entity who was somehow at the helm, but Who failed miserably to show me any authentic evidence of His presence.

One has only to read the Bible, as I did, cover to cover, to understand what the truth really is. What I found was the opposite of those common verses that clergy like to pluck out of the Bible in order to win more believers. In renewed study of scripture and Christian ideology, I found that I agreed less and less with all the Bible taught, and agreed more and more heartily with secular humanists, freethinkers, and various non-believers. As I had one of my characters say in a recent novel, "Why would I fashion my life after some 2000 year old writings by a bunch of stupid, misogynistic men in some other country?"

It might be pertinent to mention here, that when I first considered the idea of existence without belief in the Christian God, I was one of those people who thought atheists were angry, mean, ignorant and even somehow "mental" individuals. I can say now, with a generous amount of confidence, that I was completely wrong. The only thing "mental" about most atheists, is in the context of preferring the power of their brains, over the tyranny of fear.

My studies led me to the same conclusion that Richard Carrier expressed—namely, that the Bible revealed to me "a terrible, sinful God" who was a "jealous, violent, short-tempered, vengeful being whose behavior is nonsensical and overly meddlesome and unenlightening." And I was not surprised by Carrier's and others’ revelations that many Christians "have never actually read the Bible, and have no idea what is really in there," and agree with Carrier also when Christians admonished me, with unfettered hypocrisy, to read the Bible before I make negative judgments. I did. And my judgment is more negative than before. I didn't have to try very hard to find a plethora of reasons to refuse being a passenger on that crap-wagon.


I HAVE ALWAYS been a seeker. I am forever trying to find where I fit in the world, and though I've made great strides in that regard, I have come to the proverbial fork in the road, knowing that I can’t stand at that junction forever, but must make mindful decisions about which path I wish to tread.

My beliefs about religion, spirituality, human nature, and all things related, have been sorely tested and now I have embarked on a quest for answers. I spend a good deal of time studying about it, and this book is the result of that personal journey.

I have posted excerpts, questions and ideas from this book, to various places on the Net, hoping to find others who were struggling with this paradigm—not because misery loves company, but because seekers need kindreds. I have thus been bombarded with difficult conundrums and precarious paradigms which demand clarity.

I am exceedingly thankful that I reside in a country that now allows all its people to put their thoughts and insights down on paper, and publish it for all to read at will. Whether or not this work will be traditionally published is almost beside the point. The act of doing it and offering it for public consumption on my own is enough. It is a vivid embodiment of the Freedom Of Speech, and the Freedom of the Press; though I recognize that I have hijacked that last Freedom for my own purposes; Freedom of the Press now extends to the idea of publishing one’s own thoughts, as well as the ability to speak honesty without fear of oppression. I have a voice, and I can lift it with confidence. Another reason why this country is a great one. Though there will be those who endeavor to silence unpopular notions, I am still able to speak my truth without much fear of reprisal.

I do not pretend to be an authority on any of the subjects covered in this book. I am only an authority of myself, and this is at once a personal account of my own journey in discovery of a personal cosmology. I share it for the sake of sharing it, as communication is its own reward. I share it because perhaps it will allow others to view their own cosmologies with a bit more care and discernment, and because perhaps it will give them permission to share theirs as well. Any person sufficiently capable of recognizing discrepancies, will one day apply those capabilities to her world view, and to questions that both address those incongruities, and answer them in some satisfactory way. When this happens, it is referred to as Cognitive Dissonance. According to Ethics Scoreboard,

"Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon first identified by Leon Festinger. It occurs when there is a discrepancy between what a person believes, knows and values, and persuasive information that calls these into question. The discrepancy causes psychological discomfort, and the mind adjusts to reduce the discrepancy. In ethics, cognitive dissonance is important in its ability to alter values, such as when an admired celebrity embraces behavior that his or her admirers deplore. Their dissonance will often result in changing their attitudes toward the behavior. Dissonance also leads to rationalizations of unethical conduct, as when the appeal and potential benefits of a large amount of money makes unethical actions to acquire it seem less objectionable than if they were applied to smaller amounts."


I am, among other things, what some refer to as a "late bloomer." Once I began to question things, my real growth began. The many permutations of self I have experienced have led me to this point; an undeniable angst about the world and my place in it. I believe that once I began to truly pay attention to people and events and ideas, that I also began the process of evolution as a person completely involved in my own life path.

One thing I have discovered along the way, is that once you learn how to ask questions, more questions will present themselves, and more answers will be required. The more questions I asked, the more hungry I became for those answers, and the more I needed those answers to satisfy me.

My biggest regret is not the floodgates of curiosity being opened, but that I had not begun to ask certain questions much earlier than I did. I feel that I would have had more to show for myself had I sought answers sooner.

My best friend recently asked me, “If these ideas are so great, then why are you so angry?”

Good question. But I know the answer. It’s because I’m in a process of transition. I am honestly facing all my fears about my own personal beliefs, and to have your entire cosmology upended is disturbing at first. I’m angry because I feel I’ve wasted most of my life floundering in the lies of Christianity and other spiritual belief systems, when the answer was there all along. I’m angry that I have been brainwashed by the mainstream lemmings, though I accept my own responsibility in allowing that to happen. I’m angry that I wasn’t evolved enough in my learning and understanding to have found these answers long ago, and angry at the way logic and reason and education has taken a back seat to superstition, hypocrisy, and fear.

But this is how it happened, and I will honor the process, and myself, and the nature of human curiosity, by voicing these ideas and conclusions to the best of my ability, in the hope that someone might reach the logical conclusions I have, and so rid themselves of a perpetual fiction that disrupts the rightful position of truth.


The Trepidation of a Godless Paradigm

I FIND IT BOTH IRONIC and comical (ironical?) that theists’ efforts to defend Christianity is known as “apologetics.” An apology would be appropriate for expecting any thinking person to believe in a being who is invisible, mean, contradictory, misogynistic, apathetic, murderous, and irrational.

The first thing that opened my mind to the idea of a Godless paradigm was a poem by Stephen Crane that began:

"God lay dead in heaven..."

I had a really hard time moving past that first line. And I recognize that perhaps that first line was all that I needed to take from that poem. The thoughts and ruminations and fears and possibilities that one line inspired in me, is to this day, overwhelming. Thus, the question arises: why is it overwhelming to imagine an existence without God?

I think it is because it’s all we've known as Americans, if not as an entire species; even if the being was some form of a godlike deity. Or many gods. There was always, it seems, some aspect of God in our experience as human beings.

I suspect this is the strongest habit ever formed in all of human history. As humans, we cringe in the face of suffering, loneliness, ostracization, death, and lack of meaning.

So, FEAR.

There are fears that bubble up to the surface when considering such an idea. No God. I don't know how to behave without a God-Paradigm. Though for a very long time I have on some level behaved that way anyway, because there was always so much that did not make sense. It never added up.

Even as a child, I have a memory of arguing with my grade school teacher. She wrote on the chalkboard, 2 +2 = 4.

I raised my hand, frowning, and asked, "Why isn't it 22?"

The exchange dissolved into some sort of debate which resulted in my trip down the hall to the principal's office, my offense being insubordination. Not “thinking for myself,” mind you. No, that would be too close to the truth.

And truth is something many people seem to have a great degree of difficulty wrapping their brainwashed heads around.

So what is this deep-seated fear humans have about an existence without God?

I gave this some thought and came up with a list of things that came to mind for me, personally.

Who will I turn to in a dire moment?

I had to ask myself: did I really turn to God before? If so, was it a comfort to me? Did it help?

NO. And, No, and No...

Placing myself in such a position; a condition of being without God—is at once a frightening prospect on a level that is perhaps uncommon for some others:
I have no family.
I have no child.
I have no partner (at this writing).
If I negate God as well, there is a sense of being utterly alone.

But haven't I always, to some degree, or another, felt utterly alone throughout my life anyway?

Yes.

Does this suggest that I was utterly alone from the beginning?

Maybe.

How will I be okay with my life, if there's no promise of an After-Here Paradise?

Well, truthfully, I never could quite wrap my head or my heart around that concept, anyway. I never was able to work up the appropriate JOY at the thought of all that Heaven supposedly represented. How could I get excited about something that wasn't happening, and seemed far-fetched enough to be considered impossible? How could I work up enthusiasm about something for which, by its very supposed nature, there is no comparison?

We understand things through association. That's how the human brain processes new input. So how can we understand something for which there is no precedent and no evidence, and no video or photographs?

I am not divorced from my emotions. I am considered very sensitive. Yet, at different times in my life I have been diagnosed with both "Emotional Intensity Disorder" and Anhedonia, the inability to feel joy or happiness. This dichotomy illustrated the ephemeral and fluid nature of emotion, and the way in which it can alter our lives and toy with our reality.

I learned, finally, that the intensity of my emotions had not served me, but crippled me. They usurped my reason, more often than not, and kept me from categorizing things in a rational way. They made me take things far too seriously, and far too personally, and often resulted in behavior that was harmful to myself and to others. Much like Christian Zealots. Is this the cause of the inherent evil perpetrated by those who carry the banner of God? Are they so emotionally invested in it, that they cannot function in a rational way?

I intend to explore that here.

Another question that arises in the concept of a godless universe is, What if I’m not up to the Challenge of being solely responsible for myself?

Isn't it what I have been, anyway? Have my decisions ever been about pleasing some entity I've never seen, never felt, and never had any real evidence for? Or have they been about pleasing myself, whom I have seen, have felt, and do have evidence for? Certainly, that's easy to answer. Ultimately all decisions are based on what we feel is best for ourselves, unless we are one of those unfortunate doormat types. And even that, it could be argued, is a form of selfishness, in that the person needs love or some other intangible from the person they allow to abuse them.

But in a larger, non-personal sense, what would people do if they couldn't blame their actions on the Devil? Or dismiss their behavior by way of a ubiquitous God's ostensible wishes?

The next fear that surfaced was, What if I will be shunned by everyone?

...and ruin my whirlwind social life, business contacts and family dynamics? I’m being sarcastic, of course, because as I said, my life is not what I would call common, and has not included those considerations. Why would I necessarily be shunned, when I essentially remain the same person, at my core, that caused those who now love me to feel that way? Why wouldn't I, instead, be a more peaceful person, knowing that I have reconciled myself with my truth?

What if not believing buys me a ticket to the Eternal Furnace?

If there is a God, do I really believe this is part of His shtick??

No.

If there is a God, and I deny Him, utilizing the brain He allegedly gave me, do I really believe he will cast me into the fire like an errant marshmallow?

No.

I have genuine difficulty imagining the degree of cruelty it would take for any being to behave in that way. That's made doubly disturbing by the underlying idea that God should be good. God should be the embodiment of love and acceptance and caring. Shouldn’t He?

In thinking about this idea that God is a loving entity, there are some immediate problems. If God Is Love, and loves me as His child, why don't I ever see him at the dinner table? Did that Last Supper thing leave a bad taste in his mouth? How can we really attach ourselves to the invisible? Isn't love predicated on the presence of at least two people? If one of those "people" is invisible, isn't it really an idea of love, rather than tangible love?


A friend of mine pointed out that she believes that God is all things, and that would mean both good and evil. While this idea explains much of the alleged "behavior" of the Christian God, why would I voluntarily worship such a being? If I’m to worship some entity, I would want it to be the best of all things good, and I would aspire to be as much like that being as possible. Otherwise, why would we even complain about the Hitlers and Bin Ladens and Saddams of the world? Aren't they merely manifesting a portion of that which God created? A portion of Himself?

Thus, I can find no rational reason to embrace nor worship a god who is as evil as he is good. If there is no God, then the decision to not believe He exists, only reveals my own brilliance. It's a win-win.


CHRISTIANITY IS CALLED a "revealed religion" which means, “a religion founded primarily on the revelations of God to humankind.” And yet, paradoxically, or oxymoronically, God has never revealed himself to anyone. Ever.

Is it revealing yourself, if you come in odd forms, speak through other beings, or manifest in a burning bush? Or in symbols in dreams? Or in contradictory ideas passed down for generations from sources both improvable and perhaps entirely fictional? If information is to be respected and accepted as true, don’t we need some empirical data? Don’t we need something irrefutable?

And if this information is about our very souls and the nature of the universe and the life in it, isn’t it important enough to provide proof for? Why is this proof a source of irritation for the theist? Believers will argue that if God revealed himself—proved his own existence, then we would not require faith, and this would somehow undermine the process of accepting God in any genuine way. But I know my best friend loves me because I have seen enough examples of it, and this evidence in no way undermines my belief that she loves me—on the contrary, it bolsters my belief and makes me appreciate her to a higher degree. Furthermore, her love is not predicated on a demand that I love her, nor colored by a threat of eternal suffering if I choose not to believe she loves me. Which also makes me love her all the more. Why, then, do theists offer only ad hoc arguments for the lack of proof that God loves us?


SO, WHY DO WE FEEL we need a God?

In summary, one reason might be that we are simply brainwashed by the presence of this God in human consciousness, collective and cultural, since the beginning of human existence. This would naturally lead to a second reason: FEAR. As I mentioned, we don't know how to behave without a God-Paradigm; the reasons universally, might be the same as they are for me, personally: who we would turn to in a dire moment; How we would function inside our miserable lives if there is not even a promise of an After-Here; What if we are not up to the challenge of being solely responsible for ourselves? What if we will be shunned by everyone? What if not believing buys us a ticket to Eternal Hell Fire?

Again, religion is predicated on fear, and plays to our most primitive weaknesses. The need to belong, the need for acceptance, the fear of isolation, the fear of being wrong, the fear of pain and suffering, the fear of pointless existence.


I'VE ALWAYS LOOKED for what made sense, or when confronted with nonsensical things, needed to make sense of them somehow in order to find peace. Along this life path I have encountered many things that made sense.

Reason
Love
Friendship
Education
Integrity
Pets
Weather
Creativity

And many more things that did NOT make sense:

God
Jesus
The Bible
Evil people
Hatred
Injustice
Death
Religious wars and wars in general

And some things that made sense at first, but upon closer inspection, no longer did:

God
Jesus
The Bible
Christianity
Religion
The electoral college
The law of attraction

And then one thing that made no sense at first, but then, did:

Atheism.

So, am I leaning toward non-belief?

Apparently.
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Jae Baeli »

I always intended to write other books in the vein of atheism. See, now, what I'm thinking is that I should start gathering all these stories for another book. This would be so helpful to so many people to see beyond the surface of who atheists are perceived to be; and many other people are struggling with the same ideas and questions, and would benefit from hearing how normal and sensible it is to reach that conclusion, no matter who you are, and what your background. I've been writing Supernatural Hypocrisy for that reason also, but it would be great to do an anthology of atheist "coming-out" stories. If the gay community can do it, so can the atheists. Especially since gay people fare better, now, than atheists do. We are the NEW minority. I can say that as a gay woman. It's MUCH easier for me to say I'm gay in public than to say I'm an atheist.
I'm such a pariah.

Anyway, if any of you are interested in having your stories included, please post your permission here, and I'll start gathering and saving to a file for later.

And thanks to all of you for sharing!
Jae
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Jae Baeli »

JamesH wrote:I started with Doug’s book and moved on to Darrel’s book.
Doug and Darrel have books? where? I checked profiles--no info. There are other writers here? See? You peeps need to fill out your profiles. *poke-poke*
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Jae Baeli »

Sav'
Thanks for sharing your story. And of course you're right--the Buckle of the Bible Belt is not a good place to reveal your non-belief. Not is it a hotbed of cultural activity or social sophistication. This is one reason I am planning a relocation to Denver/Boulder area as soon as I can save up the money. And kids--there are LOTS of groups there for people like us. But until then, I must start communing with like-minded individuals, or I fear I will start coming apart at the seams.
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Jae Baeli »

James---kudos for your story. You tell it very well and I enjoyed reading it. I was also in the military, (Army Reserve, and only bootcamp and AIT, as i was injured, and didn't do much drill after that. Long story. Another book in progress). Anyway, I remember being pissed when I told them I was not religious, and they insisted on putting "Christian" as the default religion on my dogtags. Who has a religion of default? (um....maybe everyone who has a religion. Just had a "dur" moment). I made them make new ones, and since i didn't have a religion, but was doing I-Ching at the time, and not much else, I requested they put "I-Ching" on them. They said "What the hell is I-Ching? That's not even a religion on the list."

I said, "If I worshiped the Good Ship Lollipop, you'd have to honor it. The last time I checked, this was a free country. Isn't that why I'm wearing these BDU's?"

They gave in and put it on the dog tags.
(Would that the Flying Spaghetti Monster had been around then).

I wasn't quite embracing my dormant atheism, but it was a portent of things to come.

And I have been in that evangelical van-ride before, in differing permutations. It's daunting, but you're also right, James, about arming yourself. The first time that happened to me, I realized, like you did, I needed to get the right information so I could defend my position properly. It's rather like being in a foxhole with a slingshot. Though, I imagine if one had a live grenade in that slingshot before shooting it, that might do the trick. And foxholes...recall the aphorism "There are no atheists in foxholes?" Not true. They are the ones paying attention to watching for enemy soldiers creeping up and incoming shrapnel-to-be, rather than reading their devotionals and praying with their eyes closed. If I have to be in a foxhole, I'd RATHER be in there with an atheist, who didn't rely on a magical being to save him.

Oh, and the giant cross on the road. There's another one near Conway and somewhere else--i can't recall where--between those and the Jesus License plates...i finally had to write a song. (seriously. It's called "That Jesus Guy"
I could embed it here in single player, but i don't think that feature is available.
It's on the widget on my songwriter page, and also on my Used By the Muse blog. http://usedbythemuse.blogspot.com. On UBTM, When the page loads, scroll to the bottom, and it's in that list on the player. At the bottom.)

I discovered, whenever i performed this song back then with my band or solo, it either made people laugh, or pissed them off.

okay...i fear there has been a bit of a digression, but i blame it on the fact that I just started my first cup of coffee for the day.

anyway. thanks everyone for sharing.
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Dardedar »

Jae Baeli wrote:
JamesH wrote:I started with Doug’s book and moved on to Darrel’s book.
Doug and Darrel have books? where? I checked profiles--no info. There are other writers here? See? You peeps need to fill out your profiles. *poke-poke*
DAR
You should check out our freethinker website fayfreethinkers.com

Here is the link to our books.

Doug is going to give a doosey of a presentation on the future of atheism/unbelief in America at our January 31 meeting. It's a new and improved version of one he gave at the Unitarian fellowship in Eureka and later in Little Rock. And in our February meeting we will be watching a movie version of a monologue very much along the lines of this thread: "Letting Go of God" by Julia Sweeny.

D.
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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Tamara »

I married Darrel.

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Re: Your Story: How I Became a Freethinker

Post by Doug »

Jae Baeli wrote:Doug and Darrel have books? where? I checked profiles--no info. There are other writers here? See? You peeps need to fill out your profiles. *poke-poke*
DOUG

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Available wherever fine books are sold...
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