August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post Reply
User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8191
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Dardedar »

It's time for another information-packed meeting of the Fayetteville Freethinkers!

It's hot this time of year, so come into the cool of the Fayetteville Public Library and do
some freethinking with us.

Darrel Henschell will summarize and comment on our latest newspaper exchanges with
the U. of A.'s Steve Worden. Worden is a sociologist who said in a newspaper column that
we are MORE likely to believe in Bigfoot, UFO's, and other paranormal things than are religious
believers. Why would someone say something so foolish? You should have already gotten copies
of our responses to this, if not they are posted in our forum here:

viewforum.php?f=11&start=0

The newspaper asked us to do a final wrap up, which we sent them and they published last week
(along with Mr. Worden's response). See a copy of ours below. It's not over yet. There are more
lessons to be gleaned from the errors in Worden's articles.

We will also have a special presentation celebrating the work of a longtime leader in our
community, Lyell Thompson.

Doug Krueger will tell us about the Asian belief in ch'i (or "ki," or "qi") energy, a vital force
necessary for your everyday existence, but when harnessed, is said to be able to knock down people
at a distance, kill people with a single touch, and other amazing things. Would you like to learn this
in one simple lesson? We have an instructional video to show you. A ch'i master goes up against a
mixed martial arts fighter. Who will win? Can you bear to look?

We will also have our Moral Question of the Day, some really good news to announce bringing you up
to date on our freethinker news and projects. And we'll watch some of the very best funny bits from the Internet too.

***
Meeting Details:

When: Saturday, August 28, 2010.

Where: The Fayetteville Public Library. 401 W. Mountain
St. (two blocks west of the town square). Library phone: 571-2222.

Time: 2:00 pm

Room: The Walker Room. This is the main meeting room. Go in the front door, through the lobby and go to your
right. You can bring a snack or coffee from Arsaga's in the library lobby.

Map: http://tinyurl.com/b3sfgf

We'll go for dinner afterward at... a location we'll figure out after the meeting (maybe Thai Diner).

Questions? Drop us an email, fayfreethinkers@yahoo.com

***
Now, our wrap up response to Steve Worden:

ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW

Steve Worden misread our sign.

In April, local freethinker groups joined with the National Coalition of Reason and rented a billboard stating:

"Are you good without God? Millions Are." --NWACoR.org

Steve Worden misunderstood this as an attack on religion, so he attacked us. In his columns he claimed we are
gullible believers in Bigfoot (false), follow Free Inquiry magazine as a Bible (false), and we're an atheist group (false).
In another column he joked about us having Nazi plays, communist hymns and crayons for kids to draw pictures
celebrating genocide (false, insulting, disgusting).

We’ve refuted these claims, and if he would like to make some more, we'll knock those down too. We encourage
you to read and comment on our rebuttals here:

http://tinyurl.com/26z9rsg

Why did Worden so profoundly overreact in this way? Our billboard was not anti-religion, it was an appeal to our own
people. There are tens of thousands of people living, working and volunteering in Northwest Arkansas and they do it
without appeals to the supernatural. We wanted them to know that they're not alone and if they want to associate
with others who choose to form their beliefs about religion based upon reason, science and critical thinking, we’re here.

It would be better if writers used their privilege of having a newspaper column to bring people together rather than
alienate and divide them.

Here’s a note our friend Linda Farrell sent in:

"The Fayetteville Freethinker meetings are a breath of fresh air for unrepentant thinkers. Now, what do we get for our
zero-dues-per-year freethinker meetings?

Socially, we get to meet super-intelligent, passionate, articulate, reasonable, rational, curious, informed, engaging
people, all of whom have a sense of humor - no exceptions. We also get the bonus of dining afterward in restaurants I
didn't know existed in the area.

Intellectually, we get to learn about, question, debate and expose all sorts of paranormal and inherently silly things, e.g.
Bigfoot, Nessie, talking snakes, virgin births, heaven, hell and other assorted unprovables. The presentations are always
top-notch and well-prepared and thorough. The questions asked are really intuitive and differences in opinion and
perspective always thoughtful and respectful. Nobody calls anybody an "idiot", "a Commie", "a traitor" or any other insults
you hear regularly tossed about in church, at tea parties or in poorly-researched newspaper columns.

We don't claim moral superiority or exhibit any kind of humorless religious arrogance. We don't hate god, simply because
it's irrational to hate an entity whose existence has never been proven. And we don't consort with satan for the same reason.
We base our beliefs on hard science, observation, empirical evidence and peer-reviewed journals. And our moral code isn't
based on fear of punishment or the promise of reward. We hold ourselves accountable for our own behavior. To quote the
Christmas song, we believe in being "good for goodness sake."

Finally, we enjoy a shared respect for each other, our laws, our society, our planet and our species. For Worden,
apparently, this makes us "dangerous."

Fayfreethinkers.com

Washington County Observer, Thursday, August 19, 2010.

****
Feel free to comment about this in our forum here:

viewtopic.php?p=22110#p22110
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer
Hydro

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Hydro »

I enjoyed my first visit today....but I guess I don't understand all the focus on the billboards and signs.

Seems to me the money would be better invested in the community showing we're good, rather than putting signs up saying we are
User avatar
Savonarola
Mod@Large
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
Location: NW Arkansas

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Savonarola »

Hydro wrote:I enjoyed my first visit today....but I guess I don't understand all the focus on the billboards and signs.

Seems to me the money would be better invested in the community showing we're good, rather than putting signs up saying we are
I'll let someone else explain the funding, but we spent that much time talking about the billboard because of the op-ed pieces Worden wrote. In April and May, when the billboard was news, we briefly hurrahed, then moved on with what we do.

What actions -- in addition to those we already do, as mentioned by Doug during the "What is a Freethinker?" bit at the meeting -- would you recommend in order to "show the community we're good"?
Hydro
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:02 am
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Hydro »

Savonarola wrote:
Hydro wrote:I enjoyed my first visit today....but I guess I don't understand all the focus on the billboards and signs.

Seems to me the money would be better invested in the community showing we're good, rather than putting signs up saying we are
I'll let someone else explain the funding, but we spent that much time talking about the billboard because of the op-ed pieces Worden wrote. In April and May, when the billboard was news, we briefly hurrahed, then moved on with what we do.

What actions -- in addition to those we already do, as mentioned by Doug during the "What is a Freethinker?" bit at the meeting -- would you recommend in order to "show the community we're good"?
I'll read up a bit more on the history behind the billboard discussion in the forums here.

There are plenty of ways that a group as large as what I saw today can perform volunteer work in the community to raise awareness.

The billboard and bus stuff just seems a bit "me too" and simply parroting what has already been done world wide with many skeptics groups.
User avatar
Doug
Posts: 3388
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:05 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Contact:

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Doug »

Hydro wrote:I enjoyed my first visit today....but I guess I don't understand all the focus on the billboards and signs.
A rich, anonymous donor offered to pay for such billboards across the country. We couldn't pass it up.

And as for the focus on Worden... well, when we are disparaged, we respond with a sackful of truth. That's our way.

Image
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
Hydro
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:02 am
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Hydro »

Doug wrote:
Hydro wrote:I enjoyed my first visit today....but I guess I don't understand all the focus on the billboards and signs.
A rich, anonymous donor offered to pay for such billboards across the country. We couldn't pass it up.

And as for the focus on Worden... well, when we are disparaged, we respond with a sackful of truth. That's our way.

Image
didn't realize it was anonymous....

thanks for the info Doug
User avatar
kwlyon
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:59 pm

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by kwlyon »

Hydro wrote: The billboard and bus stuff just seems a bit "me too" and simply parroting what has already been done world wide with many skeptics groups.
I couldn't disagree more! I wish I had seen such a billboard when I was struggling with my diminishing faith. Just to know that I wasn't alone would have made the process at least an order of magnitude easier. As for community outreach, well, the more of us there are, the more we can do. The billboard communicated our presence quite effectively. And I can't help but notice that no one seems to feel the Methodist are screaming "me too" with their advertisement directly below where our billboard was located. It is VERY acceptable and typical for any interest group to advertise in the pursuit of attracting like minded, interested people. To criticize them for investing resources into this activity is ridiculous as well as rather presumptuous.
Hydro
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:02 am
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Hydro »

kwlyon wrote:
Hydro wrote: The billboard and bus stuff just seems a bit "me too" and simply parroting what has already been done world wide with many skeptics groups.
I couldn't disagree more! I wish I had seen such a billboard when I was struggling with my diminishing faith. Just to know that I wasn't alone would have made the process at least an order of magnitude easier. As for community outreach, well, the more of us there are, the more we can do. The billboard communicated our presence quite effectively. And I can't help but notice that no one seems to feel the Methodist are screaming "me too" with their advertisement directly below where our billboard was located. It is VERY acceptable and typical for any interest group to advertise in the pursuit of attracting like minded, interested people. To criticize them for investing resources into this activity is ridiculous as well as rather presumptuous.
"May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."

Dwight D. Eisenhower
User avatar
Savonarola
Mod@Large
Posts: 1475
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
Location: NW Arkansas

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Savonarola »

Hydro wrote:There are plenty of ways that a group as large as what I saw today can perform volunteer work in the community to raise awareness.
I don't disagree, but give examples. Keep in mind that the simple action of putting up a non-invasive, plainly-worded, polite billboard spurred news reports -- complete with input from angry locals -- and brought out the crazy in mostly-sane people like Worden.
User avatar
kwlyon
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:59 pm

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by kwlyon »

Hydro wrote:
"May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."

Dwight D. Eisenhower
I think you are reading too much into my intent. However I do often come across as curt. My point was simply that I would readily support the expenditure of resources towards such campaigns. I think they are of great value. I once criticized churches for spending so much money building large new buildings. Why not just make due with a tent in a pasture and spend that money to feed the poor? Eventually I realized that engaging in such criticism, while I myself believe in social justice yet own a nice big LCD TV, is the hight of hypocrisy. Besides, as the great king cashew once said, "It is not my place to join my people in their suffering, but to save them from it." Great man... terrible shame he doesn't exist. But I digress....Of course the resources devoted to this billboard COULD have been applied toward some other form of community outreach or social justice, and certainly resources SHOULD be devoted to these endeavors. However that is not to say that the billboard campaign was not a worthy expenditure regardless of where the money came from.

Kevin

**Update: Hey I know now why my post comes across as curt. Hydro, that last sentence you hi-lighted there, that wasn't directed at you. I didn't mean to imply you were in any way out of line or that your post was "ridiculous". I was referring to the general criticism that often befalls the application of resources towards such advertisements. "The Poor will be with you always...." We should spend more time and resources on outreach and social justice, but that doesn't mean a nice gesture isn't in order once and a while:) And I think the billboard did quite a bit more good for our community than making one man's feet smell perty for a short time.
Hydro
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:02 am
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Hydro »

ah, ok....that's why I thought it was a bit.......unnecessarily blunt
User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8191
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Dardedar »

Hydro wrote:I enjoyed my first visit today....but I guess I don't understand all the focus on the billboards and signs.
DAR
Hello Hydro. We had one billboard, for one month. There were a few signs on some buses, for about a month. All of the local freethought groups involved in the campaign paid nothing.
Seems to me the money would be better invested in the community showing we're good, rather than putting signs up saying we are
DAR
That was not an option. We were approached by the national coalition of Reason with the opportunity of having them pay for the above mentioned advertising of our local freethought groups. We didn't pay a dime. Passing up on this opportunity would have been the height of foolishness. The campaign was very effective in promoting our group and educating the public. Hell, I didn't even know we had seven freethinker groups in the area until they brought us together and helped us with this little advertising campaign. I did at least three TV news interviews (you can see the clips on this forum). One of the threads on the KNWA website had three hundred comments in one night. We have received many positive emails (also copied on this forum) from people who had lived in the area for a long time and didn't know we were here and are so glad to learn about us. This can happen when you don't advertise.

What we did in NWA is happening in identical campaigns all across the nation because of this generous donor. Considering the whole thing may be getting done (wild guess) for a couple hundred thousand, I think it is a BRILLIANT use of limited resources.

If you read the background of the Worden exchanges (all reproduced on this forum) you will see why we focused on his distortions about our groups. And all of this is an intended and predictable part of the campaign... having people overreact to our seven word sign and then draw more (free) attention to it. Worden took it and ran with it. If you had been on our email list for the last few months you would have known this context because you would have had copies of our responses sent to you. Correcting his errors have been a great opportunity for education and we have future presentations planned on some of the many common misconceptions he peddled in his three articles about us.

hope this helps,

Darrel.
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer
Hydro
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:02 am
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Hydro »

thanks...makes a bit more sense now
User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8191
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: August 2010 Freethinker Meeting

Post by Dardedar »

August Freethinker Meeting Summary

We had a great turnout for our August freethinker meeting with over 70 in attendance. As promised, here is a review and links to some of the material we covered at this meeting.

We began by watching this heart warming video of a baby enjoying the benefit of science as he hears his mothers voice for the first time. See it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTzTt1VnHRM

Doug gave a presentation on "Kiai energy" (it has many spellings). It involved a martial arts fighter who was so convinced his power to defeat people by manipulating this invisible energy that he offered a $5,000 reward to anyone who could beat him in a fight. Someone accepted. You can see what happens when foo foo gets a reality check:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

Warning: slightly rough.

Coltara, a student at our North West Arkansas Community College announced the formation of a new secular student group called "Legion of Logic." Students attending there should get involved! Details on Facebook here:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=136645559685452

Or email her: flamesofnight@hotmail.com

Darrel gave our main presentation. A careful dissection of Steve Worden's latest column about us. If you missed the meeting he has converted this power point presentation to text and gone into much greater detail in a three part rebuttal which is posted on our forum here:

viewtopic.php?p=22337#p22337

It addresses some of the questions raised at the meeting and includes a copy of the handout we ran out of. There are also some charts and pictures you didn't get to see in the presentation. Extensively referenced this is the most exhaustive rebuttal of Mr. Worden's claims yet. It's long and it has some rough stats about Arkansas but if you are interested in seeing the fellow who called our Billboard a "Beacon for Bigfoot," get roasted one more time, Darrel wants you to check it out.

We had a presentation honoring the remarkable life achievements of Lyell and Marki Thompson. They are gems in our community and we bestowed upon them the most coveted Fayetteville Freethinker Award which they proudly accepted. We mentioned that you can watch Lyell do his Mark Twain impersonation. See a video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwNyGVOqd4k

Darrel also gave an overview of the Amazing Meeting Eight in Las Vegas, with lots of pictures. He even got to meet Mr. Deity! We played this clip for those who aren't familiar with the hilarious Mr. Deity series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ujpzdeolA&feature=fvsr

There are dozens more.

Other announcements:

James reminded us that Skepticon three is coming up in Springfield in November. Details here: http://www.skepticon.org/

We announced the good news that our friends in Little Rock, the Arkansas Society of Freethinkers, won their lawsuit regarding the state allowing religious displays on government property but not allowing a secular solstice display. They won $25,000 in legal fees and the state acknowledged a constitutional violation.

Similarly, a case in Stigler Oklahoma has been resolved requiring that a Ten Commandments monument be moved off of court house property. The residents of that small, poor, yet very righteous county are weary of their five year battle. Now that they have moved their monument (misspelled word and all) 75 feet down the road to a privately owned hall, all that is left to do is to pay the $200,000 in legal fees incurred in this entirely useless endeavor which could have been avoided had they not tried to use the government to endorse their religion. Details and pictures of both of these cases here:

viewtopic.php?p=22180#p22180

That about covers it folks. Until our September 25 meeting, as Garrison Keillor likes to say:

“Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.”
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer
Post Reply