Which Party started the most wars: Demo or Repub?

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Dardedar
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Which Party started the most wars: Demo or Repub?

Post by Dardedar »

Who has started the most wars? Democrat or Republican Presidents?

Indian Wars occurred in every Presidency up to the 20th Century. Many were the results of broken treaties.They will not be counted.

Franco-American Naval War(Quasi War): John Adams, Federalist(Ancestor Party of the Republicans); See XYZ affair for reason of war

First Barbary War: Thomas Jefferson, Democratic-Republican(Ancestor Party of the Democrats); Tripolitians ransomed American Sailors and tried to blackmail US. When the US refused the Pasha(equivalent to king) declared war.

Second Barbary War and War of 1812: James Madison, Democratic-Republican; Second Barbary War began the same way as the first only with the Bey of Algiers declaring war. While the War of 1812 can be argued as being a war about sailor's rights, the real motive was Canada.

Mexican-American War: James K. Polk, Democratic; The Republic of Texas had a claim to Land between the Rio Grand and San Antionio(which the US inherited), which was not valid. Polk sent troops to the territory to protect it and the Mexican government sent troops to drive it out.

American Civil War: Abraham Lincoln, Republican; First fought to preserve the Union(the right to secede is still debated to this day) later to end slavery.

Korea(1876); Ulysses S. Grant, Republican; Called Choson at the time, the country attacked and destroyed an American Navy Vessel. The war was fought with similar motives as Perry's visit with Japan.

Spanish-American War and Phillipine Insurrection: William McKinley, Republican; American Naval Ship Maine sent to monitor alleged mistreatment of the civilians of Cuba and protect American economic interests. The ship was destroyed and the press (the real instigators of the war)of the time placed the now doubtful blame on the Spanish. US fought the war to free Cuba. McKinley announced that giving the Filipinos Independence outright would be like simply handing them over the Germans or Japanese(because of the geographic position) and harm American economic Interests.

Haiti; Vera Cruz occupation, Pancho Villa, World War I: Woodrow Wilson, Democratic; Troops were sent in to stabilize Haiti, Vera Cruz was occupied to prevent ships from Germany delivering guns to the government. Pancho Villa made several attacks on Americans(because he was not recognized as President of Mexico) forcing Wilson to send troops to capture Villa. WWI involvement was the result of Germany violating Neutrality rights.

Nicaragua: Calvin Coolidge, Republican; Like Haiti the objective was stabilization.

World War II: Franklin D. Roosevelt, Democratic; Asked for declaration of war after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Germany and Italy declared war two days later.

Korean war (1950-54): Harry S. Truman, Democrat; North Korea, in violation of a UN treaty, invaded South Korea. Troops were sent to contain communism.

Vietnam War: Lyndon B. Johnson, Democratic; involvement started after two American gunboats were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin(the reports have now been proven falsified.).

Grenada: Ronald Reagan, Republican; When a Communist government took over the country, it persecuted the American college students studying there.

Panama, Persian Gulf War Operation Restoring Freedom: George HW Bush, Republican; Noriega, leader of Panama was charged with drug traffickingand through Noriega's power, Panama would declare war(Though retaining the Canal is alleged to be the real motive). Persian Gulf War was fought to Liberate Kuwait from Iraq and protect Saudi Arabia from an Invasion(also to protect oil interests). Troops were sent to Somalia to assist in the feeding the hungry after guerrillas shot up UN aid convoys.

Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq: Bill Clinton, Democratic Party; troops were sent to Bosnia to enforce peacekeeping. Yugoslavia was attacked over genocide upon the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. Air assaults were done upon Iraq after it failed to comply with UN weapons inspectors.

Afghanistan and Iraq: George W. Bush, Republican; Invasion of Afghanistan was the result of the Taliban ruled government's refusal to hand over Osama bin Laden. Iraq's invasion is still under debate.

Final Score: Democrats: 16
Republicans: 10

Source(s):
Wikipedia, Robert Leckie's The Wars of America and maybe half a dozen other sources I can't think of.

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Re: Which Party started the most wars: Demo or Repub?

Post by L.Wood »

Who has started the most wars? Democrat or Republican Presidents?
There is a disconnect here. Who starts a war is different from who involves the U.S. in a war.

Obviously the Barbary pirates started the war.

Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1991 and at Kuwait's request G.H.W. Bush joined the fight.


Know your source:
Nicaragua: Calvin Coolidge, Republican; Like Haiti the objective was stabilization.
The objective was to protect American natural resources we were taking from those nations and our corporate interests there.

See Smedley Butler,War is a Racket

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Re: Which Party started the most wars: Demo or Repub?

Post by Dardedar »

DAR
Yes, there is a lot of nuance being missed in such a question and set up. For instance, lumping all wars together (as if they are all similar) is a very blunt instrument. The US lost not one service member in combat in the Bosnian intervention, while the US lost at least 58,000 in Vietnam.

I am sure there are other problems with this too.

D.
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"I spent thirty-three years and four months in active service in the country's most agile military force, the Marines. I served in all ranks from second Lieutenant to major general. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all members of the military profession I never had an original thought until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
Thus I helped make Mexico, and especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the raping of half-a-dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers and Co. in 1909- 1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras "right" for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. I was rewarded with honors, medal, and promotion. Looking back on it, I feel that I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate a racket in three city districts. The Marines operated on three continents." --General Smedley Butler, Common Sense, November 1935
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Re: Which Party started the most wars: Demo or Repub?

Post by Doug »

Darrel wrote:Who has started the most wars? Democrat or Republican Presidents?

Indian Wars occurred in every Presidency up to the 20th Century. Many were the results of broken treaties.They will not be counted.
DOUG
I would argue that you should only count the 20th century until the present time. Only then are the parties at least somewhat like those of the present-day in their policies and beliefs.
Haiti; Vera Cruz occupation, Pancho Villa, World War I: Woodrow Wilson, Democratic; Troops were sent in to stabilize Haiti, Vera Cruz was occupied to prevent ships from Germany delivering guns to the government. Pancho Villa made several attacks on Americans(because he was not recognized as President of Mexico) forcing Wilson to send troops to capture Villa. WWI involvement was the result of Germany violating Neutrality rights.
DOUG
I would argue that the Haiti and Vera Cruz ones were needless wars. Wilson did start them. Going after Pancho Villa was not really a war. Wilson did not START WWI. The question in the title of the thread is which part STARTED the most wars. So far we have 2 for the democrats.
Nicaragua: Calvin Coolidge, Republican; Like Haiti the objective was stabilization.
2 for Democrats, 1 for a Republican.
World War II: Franklin D. Roosevelt, Democratic; Asked for declaration of war after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Germany and Italy declared war two days later.
FDR did not start WWII. Still 2 for Democrats, 1 for a Republican.
Korean war (1950-54): Harry S. Truman, Democrat; North Korea, in violation of a UN treaty, invaded South Korea. Troops were sent to contain communism.
North Korea invaded South Korea in 1950, and the U.S. got involved partly because of its commitment via a U.N. treaty with South Korea. Truman did not start this one either, although it was largely a proxy war between the U.S. and the Soviets.

2 for Democrats, 1 for a Republican.
Vietnam War: Lyndon B. Johnson, Democratic; involvement started after two American gunboats were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin(the reports have now been proven falsified.).
This was another civil war that we entered. Johnson did not start it. There was guerrilla fighting when Kennedy was president. Johnson just took the U.S. into it in a larger capacity, with combat troops. Eisenhower had put almost a thousand U.S. military advisors there years earlier, and we'd been funding the South Vietnamese for years before Johnson. Shall we say Eisenhower "started" it by sending money, advisors, and taking sides?

I still have 2 for Democrats, 1 for a Republican.
Grenada: Ronald Reagan, Republican; When a Communist government took over the country, it persecuted the American college students studying there.
This was a needless "war." Reagan was just afraid the students would become hostages like the Iranian fiasco.

2 for Democrats, 2 for Republicans.

YOU FORGOT THE WAR IN NICARAGUA. Reagan funded the "Contras," the guerrilla fighters in Nicaragua, and tried to get them to overthrow Daniel Ortega, the duly elected leader of Nicaragua. Reagan started this war, although U.S. troops were not fighting in it. And Reagan funded this war ILLEGALLY, after Congress had expressly forbidden him to do so.

I have 2 for Democrats, 3 for Republicans.
Panama, Persian Gulf War Operation Restoring Freedom: George HW Bush, Republican; Noriega, leader of Panama was charged with drug traffickingand through Noriega's power, Panama would declare war(Though retaining the Canal is alleged to be the real motive). Persian Gulf War was fought to Liberate Kuwait from Iraq and protect Saudi Arabia from an Invasion(also to protect oil interests). Troops were sent to Somalia to assist in the feeding the hungry after guerrillas shot up UN aid convoys.
Bush loved Noriega and even endorsed his anti-drug stance--until we wanted him out. What an incredible display of arrogance to invade a country that is doing nothing at all to us, kidnap its leader, and put that leader in jail in our country. Maybe that's when GW learned his ways.

The Persian Gulf War was not started by Bush.

I have 2 for Democrats, 4 for Republicans.
Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq: Bill Clinton, Democratic Party; troops were sent to Bosnia to enforce peacekeeping. Yugoslavia was attacked over genocide upon the ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. Air assaults were done upon Iraq after it failed to comply with UN weapons inspectors.
Bill Clinton did not start the conflicts in Bosnia or Kosovo. And air assaults to force compliance are not a war.

I have 2 for Democrats, 4 for Republicans.
Afghanistan and Iraq: George W. Bush, Republican; Invasion of Afghanistan was the result of the Taliban ruled government's refusal to hand over Osama bin Laden. Iraq's invasion is still under debate.
One might argue that Osama bin Laden started the Afghanistan war, not Bush. But I guess it was not a war until Bush sent troops. Iraq's invasion is not under reasonable debate. Bush started it without provocation.

That's 2 more for the Republicans.

Final Score for 20th and 21st centuries: Democrats: 2
Republicans: 6

NOTE: This doesn't count Nixon's CIA creating the coup in Chile to oust Allende and put the dictator Agosto Pinochet in power. Does that count as a "war"?
"We could have done something important Max. We could have fought child abuse or Republicans!" --Oona Hart (played by Victoria Foyt), in the 1995 movie "Last Summer in the Hamptons."
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Re: Which Party started the most wars: Demo or Repub?

Post by Dardedar »

DAR
Thanks for taking the time to roast this Doug. I would pass it on to the fellow that made the claim but the conservative censors locked the thread after some on their team got nasty and started flaming out after I gave them a few good pokes.

Oh wait, I found it, it was in a different (not locked) thread. I posted a response here.

His claim was actually regarding who was in office most often, during wars.

D.
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