Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Discussing all things political in NW Arkansas and beyond.
User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:18 pm

Image
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:56 pm

Where Obama stores all of the guns he's confiscated:
Image

***
Gun Safety Reforms Reduce Violent Crimes
A law requiring people to apply for a permit before buying a handgun helped Connecticut quietly reduce its firearm-related homicide rate by 40 percent, according to a new study out from Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. And this week, announced in conjunction with the research, lawmakers from Connecticut introduced a measure to encourage other states to adopt their own permit programs.

Connecticut’s “permit to purchase” law, in effect for two decades, requires residents to undergo background checks, complete a safety course and apply in-person for a permit before they can buy a handgun. The law applies to both private sellers and licensed gun dealers.

Researchers at Johns Hopkins reviewed the homicide rate in the 10 years before the law was implemented and compared it to longitudinal estimates of what the rate would have been had the law not be enacted. The study found a 40 percent reduction in gun-related homicides. Bolstering what researchers say is the correlation between the permit law and the drop in gun homicides, there wasn’t a similar drop in non-firearm homicides."

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/12/this_is ... socialflow
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:47 am

Obama said:
"Now is the time for mourning and for healing. But let's be clear. At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries. It doesn't happen in other places with this kind of frequency."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... eston-s-c/


He was right. US mass shootings this year, so far:
---
Number 1: 1/1/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Memphis, TN
http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/277 ... s-shooting
Number 2: 1/2/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Savannah, GA
http://savannahnow.com/crime/2015-01-02 ... h-shooting
Number 3: 1/4/2015, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Dallas, TX
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/01/04/poli ... -shooting/
Number 4: 1/4/2015, William Christopher Cabbler, 2 dead 4 injured, Roanoke, VA
http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/develop ... g/30521654
Number 5: 1/6/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Miami, FL
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/2-Sh ... 37751.html
Number 6: 1/7/2015, Cortez Sims, 1 dead 3 injured, Chattanooga, TN
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/27778835/on ... t-shooting
Number 7: 1/8/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Boston, MA
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/09/1 ... ry-street/
Number 8: 1/9/2015, Unknown, 4 dead, San Francisco, CA
http://abc7news.com/news/sfpd-confirm-4 ... ey/469681/
Number 9: 1/10/2015, John Lee, 3 dead 1 injured, Moscow, ID
http://www.kxly.com/news/north-idaho-ne ... g/30634900
Number 10: 1/11/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, San Jose, CA
http://abc7news.com/news/5-hurt-in-shoo ... sj/470625/
Number 11: 1/11/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 5 injured, Hope Mills, NC
http://www.wral.com/two-dead-five-injur ... /14346149/
Number 12: 1/11/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Lakeland, FL
http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/regio ... n-lakeland
Number 13: 1/11/2015, Rishod Shermaine Fields, 5 injured, Tuskegee, AL
http://www.al.com/news/montgomery/index ... ed_stories
Number 14: 1/12/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Wichita, KS
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/ ... 58869.html
Number 15: 1/13/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Portsmouth, VA
http://wtkr.com/2015/01/13/early-mornin ... e-injured/
Number 16: 1/14/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 3 injured, Rockford, IL
http://www.mystateline.com/fulltext-new ... X8s5IeDbCA
Number 17: 1/19/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 5 injured, San Antonio, TX
http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/ne ... unded.html
Number 18: 1/20/2015, Timothy David Shoffner, 1 dead 3 injured, Clarksville, TN
http://www.wsmv.com/story/27904193/clar ... n-shooting
Number 19: 1/23/2015, Unknown, 6 injured, Boston, MA
http://www.wcvb.com/news/multiple-peopl ... n/30895680
Number 20: 1/24/2015, Unknown, 3 dead 5 injured, Omaha, NE
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /22297565/
Number 21: 1/24/2015, Jonathon Walker, 4 dead 1 injured, Queens, NY
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/2- ... 69211.html
Number 22: 1/26/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Stockton, CA
http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/new ... g/30937222
Number 23: 1/28/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, DeKalb, GA
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/one-dead-t ... ing/njy7R/
Number 24: 1/29/2015 (bodies discovered), Thomas Jesse Lee, 5 dead (4 shot to death), Troup County, GA
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/fi ... ome/nj2rK/
Number 25: 2/1/2015, Michael Morris, 6 injured, Syracuse, NY
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/ ... e_say.html
Number 26: 2/1/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Manhattan, NY
http://7online.com/news/1-dead-4-wounde ... ts/500497/
Number 27: 2/4/2015, Unknown, 4 dead, King, NC
http://www.journalnow.com/news/crime/fo ... 8c9b8.html
Number 28: 2/5/2015, Unknown, 3 dead 3 injured, Warrensville Heights, OH
http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cu ... /22956675/
Number 29: 2/6/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Tulsa, OK
http://www.newson6.com/story/28049041/t ... e-shooting
Number 30: 2/7/2015, Cedric G. Prather, 5 dead 2 injured, Douglasville, GA
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-New ... ting-video
Number 31: 2/8/2015, Unknown, 6 injured, Crockett County, TN
http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/280 ... y-shooting
Number 32: 2/9/2015, Christopher Lee Duncan and Dora Delgado, 3 dead 1 injured, New Port Richey, FL
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafe ... ng/2217118
Number 33: 2/15/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Long Beach, CA
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local ... 42941.html
Number 34: 2/17/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Little Rock, AR
http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015 ... ooting-at/
Number 35: 2/22/2015, Anthony Giaquinta, 3 dead 2 injured, Habersham County, GA
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/2- ... nty/nkGwC/
Number 36: 2/22/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Charleston, SC
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/2 ... source=RSS
Number 37: 2/22/2015, Atase Giffa, 4 dead 1 injured, Killeen, TX
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/nation/2 ... /23873731/
Number 38: 2/25/2015, Unknown, 3 dead 2 injured, Houston, TX
http://www.khou.com/story/news/2015/02/ ... /24040425/
Number 39: 2/27/2015, Joseph Jesse Aldridge, 8 dead 1 injured, Tyrone, MO
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-court ... ce-n314071
Number 40: 2/28/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Baltimore, MD
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/02/2 ... -shooting/
Number 41: 2/28/2015, Ian Sherrod, 4 dead, Tarboro, NC
http://www.wncn.com/story/28228144/at-l ... arber-shop
Number 42: 2/28/2015, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Columbia, MO
http://www.wmur.com/national/three-dead ... s/31551946
Number 43: 3/1/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Tangelo Park, FL
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/4-i ... ing/nkL22/
Number 44: 3/1/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 5 injured, Detroit, MI
http://www.toledoblade.com/Nation/2015/ ... -hall.html
Number 45: 3/2/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Santa Ana, CA
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/sant ... -shot.html
Number 46: 3/3/2015, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Las Vegas, NV
http://www.jrn.com/ktnv/news/2-dead-2-h ... 93961.html
Number 47: 3/4/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 5 injured, San Bernadino, CA
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local ... 74301.html
Number 48: 3/9/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Chicago, IL
http://abc7chicago.com/news/roseland-sh ... d-/551473/
Number 49: 3/10/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Columbus, GA
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2015/03/ ... .html?rh=1
Number 50: 3/11/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Aurora, IL
http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/- ... -83042213/
Number 51: 3/13/2015, Jimmy Lyons, 2 dead 3 injured, Brookhaven, MS
http://www.wapt.com/news/central-missis ... n/31775312
Number 52: 3/14/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Atlanta, GA
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/po ... red/nkXFD/
Number 53: 3/15/2015, Eric Antonio Cannady and Tommy Ray Jackson Jr., 4 injured, Lillington, NC
http://www.wncn.com/story/28524422/4-in ... lillington
Number 54: 3/15/2015, Christopher Lance Joyner, 3 dead 1 injured, Houston County, AL
http://www.wsfa.com/story/28529911/3-de ... er-suicide
Number 55: 3/16/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Compton, CA
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/03/ ... n-compton/
Number 56: 3/17/2015, Unknown, 3 dead 4 injured, Stockton, CA
http://www.kcra.com/news/police-multipl ... g/31860188
Number 57: 3/18/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 5 injured, Mesa, AZ
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /24965575/
Number 58: 3/18/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Newark, NJ
http://www.northjersey.com/news/police- ... -1.1291344
Number 59: 3/19/2015, Justin Fowler, 2 dead 2 injured, Navajo Nation, AZ
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s3740954.shtml
Number 60: 3/20/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Columbus, MS
http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=40862
Number 61: 3/20/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Oklahoma City, OK
http://newsok.com/police-investigate-qu ... le/5403359
Number 62: 3/20/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Joliet, IL
http://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/7/71/ ... hot-joliet
Number 63: 3/20/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 5 injured, Lancaster, TX
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03 ... ting.html/
Number 64: 3/21/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Ybor City, FL
http://tbo.com/news/crime/four-shot-out ... -20150321/
Number 65: 3/21/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Lehigh Acres, FL
http://www.winknews.com/2015/03/22/five ... res-party/
Number 66: 3/22/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 6 injured, Albuquerque, NM
http://www.abqjournal.com/558868/abqnew ... oting.html
Number 67: 3/23/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Clarksville, TN
http://www.theleafchronicle.com/story/n ... /70359278/
---
Number 68: 3/24/2015, Unknown, 4 dead, Indianapolis, IN
Number 69: 3/26/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Amarillo, TX
Number 70: 3/28/2015, David Jamichael Daniels, 7 injured, Panama City Beach, FL
Number 71: 3/29/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Stockton, CA
Number 72: 3/30/2015, Sudheer Khamitkar, 4 dead, Tulsa, OK
Number 73: 4/2/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Baltimore, MD
Number 74: 4/3/2015, Vincent Tyrone Smith, 4 injured, Daytona Beach, FL
Number 75: 4/5/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Louisville, KY
Number 76: 4/5/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Indianapolis, IN
Number 77: 4/7/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, North Rome, GA
Number 78: 4/16/2015, Unknown, 5 dead, Phoenix, AZ
Number 79: 4/16/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Los Angeles, CA
Number 80: 4/18/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Paterson, NJ
Number 81: 4/18/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Charlotte, NC
Number 82: 4/18/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Lumberton, NC
Number 83: 4/18/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Williamsport, PA
Number 84: 4/18/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Montgomery, AL
Number 85: 4/19/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Richmond, VA
Number 86: 4/21/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 3 injured, Killeen, TX
Number 87: 4/25/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Trenton, NJ
Number 88: 4/25/2015, David Alligood, 1 dead 6 injured, Gates, NY
Number 89: 4/27/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 4 injured, Brooklyn, NY
Number 90: 4/27/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Gila Bend, AZ
Number 91: 5/1/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 3 injured, Milwaukee, WI
Number 92: 5/3/2015, Unknown, 4 dead 1 injured, Menasha, WI
Number 93: 5/3/2015, Christopher Lee Accettura, 4 injured, South Bend, IN
Number 94: 5/3/2015, Unknown, 6 injured, Houston, TX
Number 95: 5/3/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 6 injured, Dayton, OH
Number 96: 5/4/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Bronx, NY
Number 97: 5/4/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Buffalo, NY
Number 98: 5/7/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Cincinnati, OH
Number 99: 5/10/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Jersey City, NJ
Number 100: 5/10/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Cleveland, OH
Number 101: 5/10/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 102: 5/12/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Capitol Heights, MD
Number 103: 5/12/2015, Christopher Carrillo, 5 dead, Tucson, AZ
Number 104: 5/13/2015, Unknown, 4 dead, Anchorage, AK
Number 105: 5/16/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Milwaukee, WI
Number 106: 5/16/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Baltimore, MD
Number 107: 5/16/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Rochester, NY
Number 108: 5/17/2015, Unknown, 9 dead 18 injured, Waco, TX
Number 109: 5/18/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Miami, FL
Number 110: 5/18/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Kinloch, MO
Number 111: 5/19/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Arlington, VA
Number 112: 5/20/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Baltimore, MD
Number 113: 5/23/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Fresno, CA
Number 114: 5/24/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, St. Louis, MO
Number 115: 5/24/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Montgomery, AL
Number 116: 5/24/2015, Unknown, 7 injured, Flint, MI
Number 117: 5/24/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Brockton, MA
Number 118: 5/25/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Decatur, IL
Number 119: 5/26/2015, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 120: 5/28/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Omaha, NE
Number 121: 5/28/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Chester, PA
Number 122: 5/28/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 123: 5/29/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Miami, FL
Number 124: 5/30/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, San Diego, CA
Number 125: 5/30/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, North Amityville, NY
Number 126: 5/31/2015, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Cleveland, OH
Number 127: 5/31/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Conyers, GA
Number 128: 5/31/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Springdale, MD
Number 129: 5/31/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, New Haven, CT
Number 130: 6/3/2015, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Wyandanch, NY
Number 131: 6/5/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Davenport, IA
Number 132: 6/5/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 133: 6/6/2015, Unknown, 5 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 134: 6/6/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Buffalo, NY
Number 135: 6/7/2015, Michael “Augustine” Bournes, 5 dead, Deer Lodge, MT
Number 136: 6/9/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, St. Louis, MO
Number 137: 6/10/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Cincinnati, OH
Number 138: 6/10/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Los Angeles, CA
Number 139: 6/11/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 8 injured, Bridgeport, CT
Number 140: 6/11/2015, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Houston, TX
Number 141: 6/12/2015, Unknown, 4 injured, Miami, FL
Number 142: 6/17/2015, Dylann Roof, 9 dead, Charleston, South Carolina

***
Image
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:52 am

What happened after Austraila banned lots of guns

"So what have the Australian laws actually done for homicide and suicide rates? Howard cited a study by Andrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University finding that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provided strong circumstantial evidence for the law's effectiveness.

What is significant is the decline the laws caused in the firearm suicide rate, which Leigh and Neill estimate at a 74 percent reduction for a buyback of that size. This is even higher than the overall decline in the suicide rate, because the gun buybacks' speed varied from state to state. In states with quick buybacks, the fall in the suicide rate far exceeded the fall in states with slower buybacks:
Chart: https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/ ... jpg&w=1484

Tasmania did a quicker buyback, and saw a large decline in suicides, while the Australian Capital Territory did a slower buyback, and a slower decline. The study fits with a pattern of research in the United States that finds a strong correlation between gun possession and suicide rates, as University of Chicago public health Professor Harold Pollack has detailed here:
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordp ... -suicides/

It seems reasonably clear, then, that the gun buyback led to a large decline in suicides, and weaker but real evidence that it reduced homicides as well."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... ?tid=sm_fb
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:52 pm

"No western country has a homicide rate that compares to the US -- US is 4.7; the whole of Europe, home to 200 million more people than the US has an over-all homicide rate of 3, and that is inflated by the crippled and chaotic former Soviet republics; among the wealthy Democracies the highest rate is in Belgium at a mere 1.6
The US gun homicide rate is especially outrageous -- US rate of gun-related killings among all other homicides is 6.7; in Europe the highest is in the tiny and formerly quasi-Soviet republic of Montenegro coming at 6.47; among the wealthy Democracies the highest rate is Finland at 3.34.
Regarding mass murder, defined as non-combat killings having four or more victims, Europe has to face in a year what the US faces is forced to endure in a single month.
We live in a country the MASS SHOOTINGS ARE NOT RARE and are in fact becoming more frequent. How is this not a top-of-the-list political issue? Compare it to our reaction to biological diseases, Ebola infected four and killed on our land and still managed to induce such fear it became an election issue; but mass shootings have become normal for us -- normal, because of a concerted, well-funded, political campaign to normalize them. The high priests of the NRA show up after every massacre to assure the faithful that the politicians are already bought and they will be protected from the forces of civilization. We've been render incapable of reacting with the forceful purpose as Canada and Austria did, and they've since seen these massacres essentially disappear, while we've seen dozens pile up unimpeded."
--Robert E. Murphy Jr
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:05 pm

Perhaps we can reach a reasonable compromise. Is it too much to ask that we have perhaps 10x the rate of gun death than Britain rather than the 46x the rate? Is that too extreme?

Image

Excellent summary with references of all the standard gun arguments:
"Gun violence in America, in 17 maps and charts"
http://www.vox.com/2015/8/24/9183525/gu ... statistics

Image
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Savonarola
Mod@Large
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
Location: NW Arkansas

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Savonarola » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:40 pm

In a facebook discussion, I had asked this fellow Mike to support his assertion that we need more "good guys with guns." I asked him to find as many instances as he could of citizens stopping mass shootings. He posted a link that I reference in my response copied below. The link to the facebook thread is at the bottom of this post

~~~~~~~~~~.

Mike Burcham wants us to believe that random "good guys with guns" have stopped mass shootings enough that we should have more random "good guys with guns" around.

He's linked us to "controversialtimes.com," a gun nut site insisting that these are genuine examples. But are they?

How many of these random "good guys with guns" were actually random good guys with guns who stopped an active shooter and not law enforcement officers with specialized training or who didn't stop an active shooter?

1. Pearl High School
Myrick was an army reserve commander, not a random civilian with a gun.

2. Parker Middle School
The shooting was already over when he was "stopped." The gunman had left the scene and went to a place with nobody else present so that he could kill himself.

3. Appalachain Law School
Stopped by trained law enforcement officers, not random civilians.

4. New Life Church
Stopped by a former police officer with training serving as a security guard, not a random civilian.

5. New York Mills AT&T store
Stopped by an off-duty police officer with training, not a random civilian.

6. Sullivan Central High School
Stopped by the resource officer with training, not a random civilian.

7. Freewill Baptist Church (Spartanburg)
I don't think this one is what you're looking for either. The articles I can find give varying reports, but I'm skeptical of the claim that the presence of the concealed gun did anything. The pastor said that he dove and grabbed the gun -- which makes it unlikely that the gun was pointed at him as claimed by some -- and another member said that the gunman was jumped and tackled by mutiple members. The only details I can find about the "stopping" gun is that the citizen pointed his weapon at the gunman while he was being held down by six people.
Additionally, the carrier had ample warning that the gunman was approaching, which is typically not the case with attempted mass shootings. It is unreasonable to conclude that this is a typical incident of a carrier responding to a mass shooter.

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall
Random guy claims that the shooter ran away when random guy raised his weapon. The shooter's rifle was already jammed, and the shooter was already moving away. Random guy did not fire, and there's no indication that random guy had any influence on the shooter at all. In fact, random guy is not even mentioned in this exhaustively well-researched story on the incident:
http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascoun ... ng_61.html

More alarmingly, with respect to the credibility of controversialtimes.com, the impression given by their paragraph on this incident hardly correlates to what happened during the incident.

9. Mystic Strip Club
Stopped by a military veteran with training working as a security guard, not a random civilian with a gun.

10. Austin, Texas Construction Site
Not a mass shooting. The shooter didn't even draw until he was physically assaulted by a person with a gun. Most conservatives would call that "standing his ground." Ironic, huh?

11. Cache Valley Hospital
Not a mass shooting, and stopped by multiple security guards, not by random civilians.

12. Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital
Looks like you finally got one (sort of). Out of twelve attemps -- twelve cherry-picked, best-case-scenario attempts out of scores and scores and scores (and more scores and more scores and more scores) of mass shootings -- you got one. One. And it's not even some random dude in a random place. It was a person in a place where he felt it was likely that some deranged person with a gun would show up -- after all, it was a psychiatric hospital. This is worlds different than walking down the street, or in a K-Mart.

And that makes this the exception that proves the rule. Given 12 attempts at justifying your position, 11 support mine and only 1 (somewhat) supports yours. Your success rate is only 8% (generously) even when you try to stack the deck in your favor.

So, in response to my request to provide a list of alleged incidents of mass shootings being stopped by carrying civilians, you picked a list of twelve alleged examples. How many fit the criteria? Only one. But of those twelve, how many were actually mass shootings stopped by civilians who happened to be in the right random place at the right random time? Zero. Not a single one.
The idea that more people need to be roaming around everywhere with guns has still not been supported.

This isn't trolling. This is showing you that you don't know what you're talking about, and -- as a bonus -- exposing that your sources are a bit dishonest.

link

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:12 pm

Utterly fantastic deconstruction.
(I borrowed part of it for a response to someone yesterday).
***

Image
Interesting... gun related deaths increase with fewer requirements.

Image
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:09 pm

Image

Image
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:39 am

Image

Image
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Savonarola
Mod@Large
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
Location: NW Arkansas

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Savonarola » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:47 pm

Once again, I asked someone who was insisting that we need more people carrying guns in order to stop all of those evil people who are carrying guns. So I asked my now standard question:

Can anyone provide an example of a civilian using a gun to stop a random mass shooting?

A previous attempt at this is a couple posts above this and shows that I am not moving the goalposts regarding use of the word "civilian," though different people use different criteria for determining whether a person is a "civilian."

Marcos posted the following link of "examples," in which the author also tries to justify his own use of the word "civilian."

https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https% ... cation=ufi

The following was my response, including my reasoning behind the "civilian" requirement and why it makes no sense to use a different definition than the one I use with respect to the claim being made by proponents of weapon-carrying.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks, Marcos. It's rare that I ever have anyone try to answer that question, and never before now has someone provided even one example that passed the smell test. It looks like you have something here, but maybe not as many as the author would like us to think.

By the way, the author seems to think that a military veteran counts as a civilian. This is not the way I'm using the term, for a reason that has already been mentioned above: It is unreasonable to assume that a barely-trained (or, in some states, untrained) civilian is likely to react in as appropriate a way as a trained combat veteran is likely to react. The fact that a person with advanced training has stopped a mass shooting is not evidence that an armed general populace will have the same effect. As the thrust of the "good guy with a gun" argument is that it applies to random civilians, this usage of "civilian" is the best way to analyze the value of that argument.

The last time someone tried posting a list like this, I went down it and discounted all but (half of) one on that list, which is replicated here. Some other (discounted) ones are replicated in this list, too.

#1
I notice that the "good samaritan" isn't identified. Maybe that's just a preferred privacy issue, but it also prevents us from knowing whether he had military or law enforcement training. This is not sufficient evidence that a random civilian (as I am using that term, because that's the argument being made by people who want the populace to have guns) stopped this shooting.
(You'll notice that failing to identify the carrier is a common theme in many of these stories.)
If anyone knows of more information about the good samaritan, I will be happy to accept that additional information. This might be a legitimate example, but we're lacking pertinent information.

#2
Same as #1. It would be nice to have more information.

#3
This was the half-example from that other person's list. I count it only as half because the guy had his gun in his desk because it was a psychiatric ward -- where insane people purposely go -- not some random grocery store or Chipotle. This looks like it is a legitimate example of an untrained carrier stopping what would likely otherwise have been a mass shooting, but not really a *random* mass shooting. Half-credit.

#4
This looks like a completely legitimate example of what I asked for. There is even some information about the good samaritan, making it more likely that any training would have been mentioned if he'd had any. I'll give full credit for this one.

#5
Here was my response to this one when the other guy posted it:
I don't think this one is what you're looking for either. The articles I can find give varying reports, but I'm skeptical of the claim that the presence of the concealed gun did anything. The pastor said that he dove and grabbed the gun -- which makes it unlikely that the gun was pointed at him as claimed by some -- and another member said that the gunman was jumped and tackled by mutiple members. The only details I can find about the "stopping" gun is that the citizen pointed his weapon at the gunman while [the gunman] was being held down by six people.
Additionally, the carrier had ample warning that the gunman was approaching, which is typically not the case with attempted mass shootings. It is unreasonable to conclude that this is a typical incident of a carrier responding to a mass shooter.

#6
The carrier was a Marine.

#7
Once again, an annoying dearth of information about the carrier.
ETA: I have no found that the carrier was a U.S. Marine.
http://elkodaily.com/news/local/shootou ... f5967.html

#8
The carrier had police training.

#9
The shooting was already over when he was "stopped." The gunman had left the scene, went to a place with nobody else present, and was just standing around, perhaps about to commit suicide (according to at least one report I found). The carrier himself said that the shooter was not being aggressive while alone until the carrier confronted the shooter.

#10
The carrier had military training.

So let's sum this up:

Out of ten attempts -- ten cherry-picked, best-case-scenario attempts out of scores and scores and scores (and more scores and more scores and more scores) of mass shootings, and after the author had already thrown out the ones that definitely don't count -- you got... well, let's see... one, maybe one and a half. Or count the three maybes if you want to, because it doesn't really help your case. That'd be four and a half. This author went back 18 years and found an average of ONE example per four years.

Let me phrase that a different way:
BEST CASE SCENARIO: It takes FOUR YEARS of mass shootings for a random good guy with a gun to stop ONE random mass shooting.

But remember: That's even if I grant you the non-random shooting AND the three maybes. Otherwise you're down to one. One in 18 years.

When I asked for evidence that a civilian (meaning not having combat training) has stopped a random shooting, you did your best, and you came up with one. On one hand, I'm sort of impressed and surprised, because nobody has ever come up with a solid example for me before. (For the record, that other guy's list had twelve "examples," and 11.5 of them failed, too, but even more spectacularly than the "examples" on this list. This author's / your list was at least an honest attempt.)
On the other hand, this is one clear-cut example is the epitome of the exception that proves the rule. The fact that it is SO DAMN DIFFICULT to find a legitimate example of "random good guy with a gun" randomly carrying a weapon for safety and then using it effectively to stop a random mass shooting shows that it's absurd to believe that more random good guys with guns randomly carrying weapons is a viable approach to reducing violence.
(Even if we simply accepted the author's arguments and counted all ten "examples," that would still be ten examples in 18 years. This still would not come close to justifying the harm that is caused by these same weapons that are allegedly being carried for "defense.")

And that's without even getting into the *really* damning things, like that many of these shooters were themselves "random good guys with guns" until they got pissed and turned into bad guys, or the fact that each gun in question was profoundly more likely to be used for other, negative purposes than being used in defense. (I can provide evidence and stats supporting these numerical claims, if you wish.)

No more of this "random good guys with a gun will stop these things" arguments. When we actually look at details, not only is this NOT supported by the facts, it is refuted by the facts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I didn't mention that is one legitimate example, #4, includes the narrative that the shooter was approaching the good samaritan with the shooter's gun already pointed at the good samaritan, and the good samaritan was able to unholster his own gun and fire at least four times at the shooter without the shooter getting a shot off. This might be a legitimate example, but I'm skeptical that the story hasn't been fudged.

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:28 pm

Good stuff. See also:
---
"No less a fantasy is the idea that gun-free zones prevent armed civilians from saving the day. Not one of the 62 mass shootings we documented was stopped this way. Veteran FBI, ATF, and police officials say that an armed citizen opening fire against an attacker in a panic-stricken movie theater or shopping mall is very likely to make matters worse. Law enforcement agents train rigorously for stopping active shooters, they say, a task that requires extraordinary skills honed under acute duress. In cases in Washington and Texas in 2005, would-be heroes who tried to take action with licensed firearms were gravely wounded and killed. In the Tucson mass shooting in 2011, an armed citizen admitted to coming within a split second of gunning down the wrong person--one of the bystanders who'd helped tackle and subdue the actual killer. [Mother Jones, 4/1/13] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -shootings
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Savonarola
Mod@Large
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
Location: NW Arkansas

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Savonarola » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:53 am

I keep seeing gun advocates posting lists of "times that a 'good guy with a gun' stopped a mass shooting."

Maybe it's time to have a well-researched response to these typically overstated and sometimes downright dishonest lists.

I usually ask for examples of "instances where a civilian stopped a random mass shooting." The fact that a person with advanced training has stopped a mass shooting is not evidence that an armed general populace will have the same effect. As the thrust of the "good guy with a gun" argument is that it applies to random carriers, so this usage of "civilian" is the best way to analyze the value of that argument. With this in mind, I use the following requirements to evaluate the alleged examples.


(A)
The person must be a civilian, meaning someone with no military experience and no police experience. Remember, if the argument behind the "good guy with a gun" narrative is that any schmo with a gun can be a hero, then the example must be of a truly random schmo, not someone with advanced training. (Concealed carry "training" does not count as advanced/combat training, so a civilian with a concealed carry permit can indeed be a tally on the pro-gun's side of the ledger.)
It is important to note that alleged examples that omit these details about an alleged hero vigilante cannot support the notion that the hero vigilante was indeed untrained. The burden of providing sufficient evidence that the random person was likely untrained rests upon the person arguing that the example in question was indeed a random mass shooting stopped by a civilian.
It is, however, problematic to demand proof of a negative, so there might be some amount of additional personal details that are included in news stories that can make us convinced that it is more likely than not that this person was not trained by military or police if such information isn't present. Despite this attempt at being reasonable, pay attention to #18 below.

(B-1)
The person must be carrying "randomly." By this, I mean that there is no reason for this person to think that there is a higher likelihood of stopping a shooting that day than any other day. If Mr. Schmo decides to carry his gun on Tuesday because he's going to a psych ward with possibly deranged patients going in and out, this is very different than carrying to the grocery store. See also B-2 below.

(B-2)
The above dovetails with the last bit, "random mass shooting." It's not profound if someone stops a shooting at a psych ward because psych wards are more likely to have some deranged person. Remember, the claim is that the guns need to be everywhere, not just in high-risk environments. We don't "expect" deranged people in the same way in movie theaters, shopping malls, grocery stores, etc., so stoppages in these places would count on the pro-gun's side.

So the challenge for the gun-advocate is to find as many confirmed examples of people without combat training, carrying their gun that day for no particular reason, stopping what was -- or what appears it would otherwise have been -- a mass shooting at a location that is not, by its nature, inherently high-risk. Examples that don't fit these requirements are not good evidence that having good guys with guns roaming everywhere is a viable solution to ongoing gun violence.

Here are the attempts I've seen most recently:

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/ma ... izens.html

and

http://blog.uritraining.com/?p=88

1. Pearl High School 1997
Stopped by a non-civilian army reserve member, not a random good guy with a gun.

2. Appalachian Law School 2002
Stopped by multiple non-civilian trained law enforcement officers, not a good guy with a gun.

3. Muskegon Shooting 1995
Without even researching the other requirements, this one doesn't fit the bill because there was only one potential victim. Not a mass shooting, therefore not a mass shooting stopped by a good guy with a gun.

4. New Life Church 2007
Stopped by a former police officer with training serving as a security guard, not a random civilian.

5. Santa Clara Gunshop 1999
This *might* be a valid example, but I can find no information about the gunshop employee's civilian-or-not status, which means we can't count it. Moreover, the employee credits his extensive time "training" (his word) at the range with allowing him to act as he did. This is, therefore, not a solid example of random carrier stopping a mass shooting.
If anyone can find information showing that this example isn't disqualified under requirement (A), provide it and we'll reconsider counting this one.
(That's right: I'm not even counting a gunshop/gun range as a disqualifying high-probability shooting location. You can't say I'm being unfair with this.)
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.ph ... opic=19708

6. Aniston Shoney's Shooting 1991
This was a robbery and not a mass shooting. The robbers had ample time to shoot people had they wanted to, but instead only herded everyone to the back. No Shoney's employees or customers were shot.
(Some digging reveals a bit more information about the carrier, with perhaps enough information to conclude that he meets our definition of "civilian," but this still does not appear to qualify as a mass shooting.)
It's worth noting how inaccurately the news articles portray these events, as shown by this link:
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/informat ... sp?ID=1446

7. Golden Food Market 2009
Once again, this was a robbery and not a mass shooting. And once again, we don't get any information about the training level of the carrier, although he did anonymously allegedly encourage getting training. This is not an example of a civilian with a gun stopping a mass shooting.

8. Early Texas Peach House 2012
Not a mass shooting but a personal dispute. This time we actually get enough information to conclude that the carrier was not military or law enforcement, but we also learn that the carrier wasn't actually carrying, made a stupid decision regarding which gun to grab, and had extensive firearm training and experience. Still not a good reason to believe that a random schmo with a gun is likely to stop a mass shooting.
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/08/on ... house.html

9. AT&T store, NY 2010
Stopped by a trained police officer, not a civilian.

10. College Park, GA 2011
The carrier was a U.S. Marine.
http://www.examiner.com/article/man-get ... bbery-rape

11. Trolley Square Shooting
Stopped by a trained police officer, not a civilian.

12. Winnemuca Shooting 2008
Carrier was a U.S. Marine.
http://elkodaily.com/news/local/shootou ... f5967.html

13. Parker Middle School Dance 1998
The shooting was already over when he was "stopped." The gunman had left the scene, went to a place with nobody else present, and was just standing around, perhaps about to commit suicide (according to at least one report I found). The carrier himself said that the shooter was not being aggressive while alone until the carrier confronted the shooter.

14 Destiny Christian Center Shooting 2012
Stopped by a police officer.

15. Tyler Courthouse shooting 2005
This isn't even close. A civilian in his home grabbed his gun and ran to the scene to fire at the gunman, who was already engaged in a gun battle with multiple police officers. The gunman killed the civilian, later fleeing and being stopped by police, not a civilian.

16. Clackamas Mall Shooting 2012
The carrier claims that the shooter ran away when random guy raised his weapon. The shooter's rifle was already jammed, and the shooter was already moving away. Carrier did not fire, and there's no indication that the carrier had any influence on the shooter at all. In fact, the carrier is not even mentioned in this exhaustively well-researched story on the incident:
http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascoun ... ng_61.html

17. Boiling Springs Freewill Baptist Church 2012
The articles I can find give varying reports, but I'm skeptical of the claim that the presence of the concealed gun did anything. The pastor said that he dove and grabbed the gun -- which makes it unlikely that the gun was pointed at him as claimed by some -- and another member said that the gunman was jumped and tackled by mutiple members. One gun advocate site even explains that the gunman said he had no real intention of shooting anyone, as his motivation was only to be heard so that he could see his children. The only details I can find about the "stopping" gun is that the citizen pointed his weapon at the gunman while he was being held down by six people.
Additionally, the carrier had ample warning that the gunman was approaching, which is typically not the case with attempted mass shootings. Once again, this is not a situation of a carrying civilian stopping a mass shooting.

18. Plymouth, PA Shooting 2012
Ktytor is an Air Force veteran.
Correction, 20170702: I initially misread this article. It appears as if the original shooter, not Ktytor, was an Air Force veteran.
http://citizensvoice.com/news/man-of-fe ... -1.1373828

By the way, we can tell from the fact that there are many articles about this event that do NOT mention that Ktytor is a non-civilian that it's not really a likely bet that mere non-mention of military training means that there must be no military training.

19. 1915 Brunswick GA Mass Shooting story
The fact that the pro-gun advocates want to use this as an example is a pretty good indicator that they have no good evidence for their "good guy with a gun" myth. From the NYT article:
"It was probably half an hour after the first shot was fired by Phillips that he was shot down by Mr. Butts."
In these times, a person doesn't shoot people, then sit on a front stoop for half an hour shooting more people without the police showing up. But even without that, this is still not an example of a random good guy who was randomly carrying a gun stopping a mass shooting. Butts went into a shop and got a pistol specifically because there was a shooting taking place.

20. Doctor Stops Murderer at Phildelphia Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital 2014
This one just almost counts. I've given half-credit for this one in the past. The problem is requirement B-1, because the doctor brought the gun to a psych ward because it is a psych ward.
I will note that the pro-gun webpage is rather dishonest in its implicit portrayal of the gunman's entrance into the ward.

21. Falah Barbershop (W. Philadelphia) 2015
Again, we find barely any information about the carrier. I found one site that identifies his age as 26, but nothing else.
While this might be, in reality, an example of what I ask for, there isn't any available evidence that such is the case.

22. Uber driver Shoots Gunman 2015
Once again, despite the saturation of the story, the only information we can find about the carrier is that he was a 47 year old resident of Little Italy.
While this might be, in reality, an example of what I ask for, there isn't any available evidence that such is the case.

23. Los Altos Skate Park Shooting 2015
This one is interesting. It was definitely a mass shooting, and it might be a valid example, but video footage makes it look more like the carrier shot an alleged gunman in the back in cold blood. Something happened here, but the evidence -- including that the carrier disposed of his gun, the alleged gunman didn't have a gun, and the alleged gunman didn't have gunshot residue on him, really leaves this one in doubt.

24. Conyers Georgia Magnet Bottle Shop 2015
Maybe, but probably not. There is surveillance video of this one, and the gunman seems completely undeterred by the alleged hero carrier. In fact, if the gunman firing at the customers was due to the carrier, the gunman was particularly undeterred because he resumed firing at the employees behind the counter. He certainly wasn't chased out by the carrier. The gunman wasn't "stopped" until later at his home by police.


5, 21, 22: maybe, due to lack of information on carrier's background
20: Half-credit, if I'm generous.
23: It's very unclear what happened here.

As always, the general recap:

This gun-advocate went back literally 100 years and found what he thought were 24 (only 24?!) examples in 100 years of carriers stopping mass shootings. How many of these examples clearly match the talking point of an untrained civilian carrying randomly? None.

None. None of them.

Now, you might argue that I'm not being generous enough. OK. Let's be generous. Let's grant full credit for #20. Let's give unquestioning benefit of the doubt for numbers 5, 21, and 22. Aw, heck, let's even pretend that 23 is good enough. That'd be five.

Five. In a hundred years.

That means that -- on average -- it takes twenty years of mass shootings for ONE instance of a civilian carrying randomly to stop a mass shooting.

Remember, that's being generous.

Moreover, concealed carry advocates or open carry advocates cannot reasonably use any of the above examples involving a person retrieving a gun from a residence or place of business in order to confront a gunman. While the question of whether having a gun stored can be useful is one that deserves valid discussion, it is not pertinent to the notion that it's good to have "good guys with guns" roaming the streets.

And while gun advocates will harp nonstop on these (non)examples, none of them ever ask why the gunmen in these cases -- most of whom had no business owning weapons -- were able to get the guns in the first place. Odd, huh?

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:42 pm

Excellent and thorough. I used this in a response to a gun nut the other day. Glad to have the new and more exhaustive unabridged version!
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Savonarola
Mod@Large
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:11 pm
antispam: human non-spammer
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 50
Location: NW Arkansas

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Savonarola » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:58 pm

Dardedar wrote:Glad to have the new and more exhaustive unabridged version!
While there's plenty of overlap (because there are so few cases that look like maybe-examples even upon a cursory, gun-nut glance), my three posts here each address different lists. I'm trying to have one for each link of alleged examples that is going to be provided. Then it's just a quick copy/paste job no matter which terribly misinformed source is used.

I guess I need to do a better job of providing my own links for the information I provide in refutation.

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:50 pm

Why people shot people in November:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:15 pm

Does Gun Control Save Lives?
The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence graded and ranked every state on the strength of its gun control laws. In the scatter plot below, each dot is a state. Each state is positioned according to how it was ranked for its gun control laws, from weakest to strongest, and its 2013 gun deaths rate rank, from lowest rate to highest."
See chart here:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... eaths.html
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer

User avatar
Dardedar
Site Admin
Posts: 8166
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm
Designate the number of cents in half a dollar: 0
Location: Fayetteville
Contact:

Re: Dar's Handy Dandy Gun Stat thread

Postby Dardedar » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:03 pm

Image
"I'm not a skeptic because I want to believe, I'm a skeptic because I want to know." --Michael Shermer


Return to “Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest